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Paris To Scrap Ban On High-Rise Tower Blocks


PARIS, July 8, 2008 (AFP) - Paris city council on Tuesday moved to scrap a 30-year-old ban on high-rise buildings, a decision that could revolutionise the capital's skyline but which is fiercely opposed by green politicians.

The Socialist mayor of Paris, Bertrand Delanoe, has championed a change to rules that currently limit the height of inner-city buildings to 37 metres (122 feet), despite polls showing that two-thirds of Parisians oppose the change.

On Tuesday, Paris city council voted to launch a public consultation on plans to build towers of up to 200 metres at six emblematic sites just inside the city walls.

Part of wide-ranging regeneration plans, the towers would mix shops, offices and childcare centres. Delanoe also backs the construction of new 50-metre apartment blocks to counter a shortage of affordable housing in the capital.

The 37-metre ceiling was brought in 1977 to call a halt to a string of high-rise projects -- including the Montparnasse tower south of the River Seine -- that were quickly seen as failed experiments in urbanism.

"We will not repeat the mistakes of the past," Delanoe told the city council before the vote.

by paving on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 07:41:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is Delanoe mad, a sell-out, or does he have some reasonable excuse?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:38:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
housing is very, very scarce in Paris. There already are high-rises in some of the outer arrondissements - where the urban landscape isn't partiularly nice anyway, so there's no reason to get mad at Delanoë for that.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:55:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You (or Delanoë) presume(s) that high-rises are the best way to increase density. I very much doubt that.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 05:56:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced anything higher than 7 storey is practical. Also, you have to make sure you have enough services and open spaces in the vicinity.

I don't think the goal here is to increase density, but to "provide affordable housing". High-rises tend to fail at that, to judge by the experience of the US "projects" and UK "estates", precisely because of the lack of services and open spaces.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:02:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I live on the 10th floor of an 11-story building and don't think it's that bad, but it does get less and less practical with every additional floor.  (Especially when, as happened two days ago, the elevators broke and I had to walk up 10 flights of un-airconditioned stairs on a 39°C day.  That's 102°F.)

That said, there's already a severe street-parking shortage near my office, and they're currently building two more highrises across the street; it looks like at least one of the buildings, if not both, are ignoring the city's requirement to build parking in any new construction, so we're bracing for a nightmare if and when those buildings are actually occupied.  (Which, the way things go here, could be years after they're actually built.)

Washington D.C. also has a height restriction, as do some of the surrounding communities; this blogger based in the Maryland suburbs has some interesting suggestions for regulating the construction of taller buildings so as to make them greener and more workable.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:18:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with street parking can be solved with adequate public transportation, which is more or less the case in Paris (the extreme office concentration of La Défense causes problems).

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:29:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That said, there's already a severe street-parking shortage near my office, and they're currently building two more highrises across the street; it looks like at least one of the buildings, if not both, are ignoring the city's requirement to build parking in any new construction, so we're bracing for a nightmare if and when those buildings are actually occupied.

NYC has strict parking space laws that work in the opposite direction in Manhattan - i.e. you are not allowed to build much of it. That's a good thing - the core of the Midtown office district has about 700,000 jobs packed into one square kilometer, I'm not quite sure how one would handle that with car based commuting.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 11:14:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, Paris had a policy to force new residential buildings to have underground parking spaces, but they've now reversed this and actually forbid new buildings to include underground parkings. This forces residents to either have no car, or to park them on the street (where residential parking has been made extremely cheap and convenient, ie it costs you 50c a day, or 2.50 euros for a full week, on any legitimate parking space).

Lack of parking space has been shown to be the single most important factor driving traffic in Paris, so the city is busy reducing the overall stock inside Paris.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 05:38:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe the Manhattan rule on residential buildings is a maximum of one parking spot for every five apartments. Commercial parking is disappearing as it gets converted into apartment and office buildings. Even around me non-street parking can be rather expensive - recently saw  one space being advertised for an even $100K plus property taxes - note, this is just a parking space, admittedly it was in Park Slope which is about as expensive as it gets in Brooklyn, but is also purely residential. When I moved to my neighbourhood many of the old carriage houses were being used as garages, now they're rapidly being turned into condos. (The original neighbourhood plan had alternate streets of large homes with carriage houses facing out the back).
by MarekNYC on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:26:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Around 50 meters (10-15 storey) is still very practical, does not involve high-rise type maintenance (which really kicks in, legally, at 50 meters in France with the obligation of setting up a pool on the roof)...

Also, what is really critical is indeed to avoid the lack of services (open spaces are present in French projects, and are mostly misused ; also, towers in Paris would be within an urban environment, unlike the projects in the suburbs which suffer of exclusion from the rest of the city).

Also, the goal may be to provide "affordable housing", but the target isn't the poor, but rather the middle class (people like me) who can't afford Paris any more. The social problem this potentially causes are quite different...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:27:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced anything higher than 7 storey is practical.

I don't know the number of 8+ story buildings in NYC, but given that there are over 5600 12+ story ones within the city limits I'd beg to differ. (Paris has less than 500 - not completely comparable, a much smaller land area, on the other hand the outer parts of the outer boroughs are generally zoned low rise or even single family in some cases)

Also, you have to make sure you have enough services and open spaces in the vicinity.

The services aren't a problem. Open spaces, well thanks to some nice city planning over a century ago NYC does fine on that count, but it isn't easy to reverse engineer into a different layout.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 11:07:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, Paris (intra-muros ; the matter is very different beyond the periphéque, where the suburbs could use some Paris-style densification) is pretty much filled up with 6-7 storey buildings already. So anything under 37 meters will not increase density...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:22:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Right, so increase the density outside the Periphérique (and improve public transport and services while you're at it...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:24:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What, you want me to live beyond the périphérique ? But that's almost the Province !

More seriously, there already are some high-rise housing neighbourhood in the outer arrondissements of Paris, and they are not unlivable. Both need to be done : density increase within and out of Paris.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 06:31:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't there quite a few streets that you could make narrower, or eliminate?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 09:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Make a street narrower seems complex and expensive... And people tend to like staying where they are. Tearing down 19th century buildings and rebuilding more recent stuff would seem more destructive of the Paris urban landscape than a few towers along the Périphérique...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 09:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having seen this when I was in Paris a few weeks ago, I don't blame them for banning highrises.  It may be the ugliest building I have ever seen.

There are arguments (e.g. those involving affordable housing, population density and urban sprawl) for building things higher than 37 meters.  There is, however, a big difference between 37 m and 200 m....

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:41:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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