WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Russia's invasion of Georgia has raised concerns among senior Pentagon officials about long-term U.S.-Russian relations, including future military ties, the top U.S. military official said on Thursday. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also said Russian and U.S. military officials were working carefully to coordinate the movements of their navies in an increasingly crowded Black Sea region to avoid any potential for direct confrontation. "The message that has come from the Russians is one that is tied to invading another country, invading sovereign territory," Mullen told reporters at a Pentagon briefing. That "has a lot of us concerned about what it means now, what it means a year from now, what it means long term with our relationship on the military-military side as well as the relationship between our two countries," he added.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Russia's invasion of Georgia has raised concerns among senior Pentagon officials about long-term U.S.-Russian relations, including future military ties, the top U.S. military official said on Thursday.
Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also said Russian and U.S. military officials were working carefully to coordinate the movements of their navies in an increasingly crowded Black Sea region to avoid any potential for direct confrontation.
"The message that has come from the Russians is one that is tied to invading another country, invading sovereign territory," Mullen told reporters at a Pentagon briefing.
That "has a lot of us concerned about what it means now, what it means a year from now, what it means long term with our relationship on the military-military side as well as the relationship between our two countries," he added.
Putin Suggests U.S. Role in Georgia Conflict MOSCOW -- Vladimir V. Putin, Russia's prime minister, mused in a televised interview on Thursday that the United States might have helped provoke the war between Russia and Georgia to benefit one of the candidates in the American presidential election. (...) In an interview with CNN in the Black Sea beach resort town of Sochi, Mr. Putin said he suspected that American citizens were in the conflict area supporting Georgia's military action in South Ossetia, which Russia says prompted its offensive. The United States denies such support. Mr. Putin went on to say he was contemplating another possibility. "The suspicion would arise that someone in the United States created this conflict on purpose," he told CNN. He said the purpose was to "stir up the situation and to create an advantage for one of the candidates in the competitive race for the presidency in the United States." He added, "They needed a small victorious war.
MOSCOW -- Vladimir V. Putin, Russia's prime minister, mused in a televised interview on Thursday that the United States might have helped provoke the war between Russia and Georgia to benefit one of the candidates in the American presidential election.
(...)
In an interview with CNN in the Black Sea beach resort town of Sochi, Mr. Putin said he suspected that American citizens were in the conflict area supporting Georgia's military action in South Ossetia, which Russia says prompted its offensive. The United States denies such support.
Mr. Putin went on to say he was contemplating another possibility.
"The suspicion would arise that someone in the United States created this conflict on purpose," he told CNN.
He said the purpose was to "stir up the situation and to create an advantage for one of the candidates in the competitive race for the presidency in the United States." He added, "They needed a small victorious war.
He will be dismissed again for being unserious.
Yep:
In Washington, the White House spokeswoman, Dana M. Perino, dismissed Mr. Putin's remarks. "To suggest that the United States orchestrated this on behalf of a political candidate just sounds not rational," she said, according to a transcript.
A U.S. passport was found in a building in South Ossetia occupied by Georgian troops, a Russian military spokesperson revealed on Thursday. After Russian peacekeepers cleared the heavily defended building, a passport belonging to a Texan named Michael Lee White was discovered inside.
My analysis of your comment leads me to believe that a fact vector was missing or is not providing enough weight when you made your calculations.
Quoting AP - Georgia, US start military exercises despite tensions with Russia The US and Israeli military were both in Georgia on a joint training exercize with the Georgian military for 3 weeks, beginning no later than the 12th of July...it seems they finished less than a week before Saakashvili got his war on during the Olympics' Opening Ceremony on 7 August.
Israel has sold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of arms to Georgia. US donates billions to Israel, much in arms, though it seems a lot is in cement these days.
Was it a coincidence that the Russian forces were at the gates of the problem in Georgia, ready for action? No; as reported here at ET at the time, the Russians decided on their own war games on the other side of the border.
The first that I read of the war was a Stratfor piece the following day where they mentioned that they had assets on the ground, giving reports back, on that Friday night. My guess is that if these assets were Georgian, they spoke with a Southern Drawl more common to Atlanta.
You'll remember also, reported in ET, that during the Georgian retreat, American voices were heard on the radios. The Russians have been claiming US involvement since that time, not just today's mention of found US Passports. 5$ on the found passport belonging to someone in Blackwater's employ.
Intercontinental ballistic missile tests, telling the US that 900,000 tons of yearly poultry and pork meat imports are not going to be on Russian menus (good news for the EU suppliers, no?)...the US better be very serious about using all the military hardware they have in those humanitarian boxes they're unpacking over there now. This is no longer Soros, et al, buying a pretty colored revolution. And the Georgians turning tail and running the last time...how soon until all those arms are in Russian hands?
We're seeing the equivalence of Russia having warships on The Great Lakes and unloading goods on the Canadian side of the Saint Laurent Seaway in support of the break-away province of Quebec. What would the US be doing in that situation?
Last point: to the spineless democrats who thought it would be impolite to impeach Cheney and Bush, the stain for any and all death and mayhem from these events is on your hands. Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.
Frank Delaney ~ Ireland
Bringing such things up during an election in the US can be problematic. I do think that it could be effective to challenge McCain's judgement in relying on a known lobbyist for foreign governments including Georgia and who was a supporter of Ahmed Chalabi and a conduit for his lies. As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
Last I checked neither Georgia nor Turkey were Russian allies. Ukraine has also tended to be rather pro-Georgian in this crisis.
I am only willing to concede that it is the river (fleuve) I was talking about, not the seaway.
And, whether Turkey is equivalent to Minnesota or New Brunswick, Russian War Ships on the St Laurent would be a challenge. Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.
I acknowledge that it doesn't quite work. Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.
EU considers sanctions against Russia Russia's decision to recognise the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia has prompted a strong reaction from the European Union, with French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner saying that sanctions and other measures are being considered. However France, which currently holds EU's rotating presidency, gave no further details on what the sanctions would entail.
However France, which currently holds EU's rotating presidency, gave no further details on what the sanctions would entail.
Russia could cut poultry and pork import quotas by hundreds of thousands of tons, the country's agriculture minister said Wednesday. The move could hit American producers hard and comes amid heightened tensions between Moscow and Washington over the war in ex-Soviet Georgia. ..."Agreements signed more than three years ago as part of the negotiations on WTO accession are unfortunately no longer in Russia's interests," said Gordeyev. "To put it mildly, we've been deceived." ...
Russia tests intercontinental missile in Kamchatka Russia has successfully tested an intercontinental ballistic missile. The country's Defence Ministry has reported that it hit the target on the testing ground in the far eastern region of Kamchatka. The Ministry claims the weapon is capable of bypassing the most advanced missile defence systems. Although it has been on stand-by for 21 years, the Ministry said the weapon has shown it can effectively hit high-security facilities.
The Ministry claims the weapon is capable of bypassing the most advanced missile defence systems.
Although it has been on stand-by for 21 years, the Ministry said the weapon has shown it can effectively hit high-security facilities.
A war that you win cancels any other bad action of your doing. In the same way, by losing one, all the good things worked by you before become vain. (Niccolo Machiavelli)
How close are we to a catastrophe...?
That must be the single most common answer when any government is criticised. I certainly encountered it when criticising Bush in the US in 2001-4. A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
But that's the problem. When you have belligerent people on both sides, who can make them stop ? These are people who rule by bluster, by bullying, by fear. They have a psychological compulsion to make the other guy feel bad. when they are in charge of a country and its military that's a bad combination.
Putin and Medvedev might or might not fill that profile, but Bush, cheney and McCain certainly do. Now we are in a situation where the russians cannot back down without losing face and Cheney feels he can make good things happen for McCain by chasing the ruskies back to moscow, so he's not gonna stop.
Of course they show off their weapons, set off their silly fire-crackers, send their little boats to make noises in the Black sea. That's how it's done in their infantile goatish playgorund world of bashing heads.
So, am I at ease ? No. Can I do anything about it ? No, there is literally nothing we can do about it. Our leaders have entirely insulated themselves from reason and rationality. So there's no point getting uptight about it. keep to the Fen Causeway
TPM Election Central | Talking Points Memo | Obama's Historic Speech: The Full Text
With profound gratitude and great humility, I accept your nomination for the presidency of the United States.
Orange reaction - and the crowd goes wild...
Daily Kos: Text of Obama's Acceptance Speech
Update by brownsox: I have never seen Barack Obama give a better speech. I have never seen anyone give a better political speech. Update by MissLaura: A friend reports that CNN didn't even break in over the crowd shots at the ending immediately as would be normal practice. That's a sign something extraordinary happened.
Update by brownsox: I have never seen Barack Obama give a better speech. I have never seen anyone give a better political speech.
Update by MissLaura: A friend reports that CNN didn't even break in over the crowd shots at the ending immediately as would be normal practice. That's a sign something extraordinary happened.
BBC reader reactions (perhaps with some freeping?)
BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Obama speech: Your views
What an inspiring speech! It as a speech of hope. America is suffering under the yoke of the Bush Admin. It will be a great day for not only America but the world, when he takes the oath of office. Mr Vassmer
What an inspiring speech! It as a speech of hope. America is suffering under the yoke of the Bush Admin. It will be a great day for not only America but the world, when he takes the oath of office.
Mr Vassmer
Empty rhetoric...how many times will people honestly believe he will "break US dependence on foreign oil", "Unite the country", "Save Social Security"...etc, he never actually says how he plans to accomplish those goals. How is he going to afford everything he's promising?Obama and many of his more cult like supporters are going to have a rude awakening when they discover that not everybody is going to become leftist liberals because he talks about "change". Mike Cuz, Sacramento, United States
Mike Cuz, Sacramento, United States
His energy policy left me bland. He did say that drilling was just a temporary measure, and that there would be vast support for renewables. But he also said he supports an increase of safe nuclear power. Safe nuclear power is not going to happen in a nation with grandma peace activists on no-fly lists. His comments on Georgia indicate he does seem to have learned that he'd best moderate his comments about Russia, which he'll have to mouth until he gets the win, because it will be such a central part of McCain's campaign shit.
I won't have any problem voting for him, but like many national votes in amurka, it will be with the eyes of reality open.
What impressed me the most was his life's path, and how he worked that into who he is as a politician. Amurka could do far worse than this (first African-American) President of the Harvard Law Review, who achieved that pulling himself up from relative poverty. That's far more encouraging than anything currently on the horizon, or from the past post-Carter decades.
I expect his triangulation comes a bit more from the heart than that of the Clinton dynasty, and this will be a strong plus. That he will have to govern during the end of empire and financial meltdown will be very, very hard. But there's probably no one better equipped on the current scene.
(I wish Gore hadn't been fast on his points, as he gave a very detailed policy speech leading up to Obama. It wasn't as effective as possible, but perhaps as necessary.) "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
E.g. He followed up a promise to reduce dependency on foreign oil with a nice story about cars for everyone! Built in the US! For everyone! Not so much about making travel and city design saner and - oh dear - maybe even more European.
Also - clean coal? What is clean coal?
Considering the rest was all dare-to-dream, I thought the dreams weren't all that daring. And the foreign policy lines were downright scary and hawkish. He's smart enough to make negotiations with Putin, er, Medvedev, far more interesting than the clown show the Bush team have turned them into, but he also sounds too ideologically blinkered and too much of an exceptionalist to be good at effective realpolitik.
Still he is who he is, and while he's not Mr Aggressive Progressive, he's moving in a better direction.
The real enemy from now on won't be McCain, it's going to be the various corporate machines and their Washington puppets, who are going to be trying very hard to push the policy agenda back towards the right, even after a likely Dem win.
But I'm not sure if Migeru wanted to put that as a plus. If lying wouldn't be more effective in a campaign than telling the truth, anybody who cuts taxes, would have to explain, where to cut expenditures, too. Of course McCain's proposals are complete fantasy without any connection to reality, but when Obama doesn't want to cut military spending, and this is difficult, when he wants to escalate Afghanistan, he needs more tax income.
Some coal is cleaned at the source, before it's burned, as when a mountain top is cleanly stripped of its top. The part that is not cleaned is washed down into former stream beds, where the gentle water that used to flow there purifies the silt into paradisical farm lands where even farmer's wives in gingham dresses can grow gardens of organic coal potatoes.
What little dirt remains on washed coal is then burned, with some leaking into the atmosphere. But it does not damage, as it is heavier than air, and falls down either in the northeastern forests and lakes, or in the chasms of the Grand Canyon, so it doesn't affect people directly (except for the ones who continue to breathe.)
Clean coal also protects people from being overly stunned by the beauty of the Grand Canyon, as they don't have to be awed by a view of the other side anymore.
Go Barack "Energy is My Middle Name" Obama! "Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
Especially as the delivery went during the portions on Iraq. A key difference between Kerry and Obama that I picked up on was that Kerry had to continuously insist that he was strong enough to be president. It came across as whiny and weak for Kerry. Obama went straight at it, and the delivery allowed him to assume away McCain's bullshit narrative ("Of course he's wrong and I'm right, you asshats").
That's where being a good orator matters.
He framed the election very well, and the funny thing is it turns out that the one person in Denver who knew how to hit McCain in a solid way turned out to be...Obama.
I liked the economics portions, especially hitting the Reps on supply-side economics and their Protestant work ethic horseshit:
For over two decades, he's subscribed to that old, discredited Republican philosophy - give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else. In Washington, they call this the Ownership Society, but what it really means is - you're on your own. Out of work? Tough luck. No health care? The market will fix it. Born into poverty? Pull yourself up by your own bootstraps - even if you don't have boots. You're on your own.
Certainly it could have been a better speech. But I think it probably won him some votes. On the whole, I think we got out of this convention more than what we needed to get out of it. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
Many Israeli settlers would gladly leave their homes in the West Bank, as long as they are compensated financially. The group Bait Echad has been pushing for a planned withdrawal to avoid a repeat of the chaotic scenes in the Gaza Strip. Jewish settlement of Har Homa in east Jerusalem. Many settlers want compensation rather than risk being left behind in any eventual Palestinian state. When Benny Raz comes home in the evening and gets out of his car, his neighbors turn their backs on him and disappear into their houses. Ras is wearing a short black jacket and jeans. His head looks like a coarsely modeled sculpture, with his protruding cheekbones and eyes set deeply in their sockets. He is 55, and he says: "I have lost all of my friends here." Raz, an Israeli, sits down on an old sofa in his living room and lights an Imperial, the cigarette brand favored by Palestinians. His wife enters the room and serves Nescafe with cookies. She says: "Just to make one thing clear, Benni: You don't speak for me."
Many Israeli settlers would gladly leave their homes in the West Bank, as long as they are compensated financially. The group Bait Echad has been pushing for a planned withdrawal to avoid a repeat of the chaotic scenes in the Gaza Strip.
Jewish settlement of Har Homa in east Jerusalem. Many settlers want compensation rather than risk being left behind in any eventual Palestinian state. When Benny Raz comes home in the evening and gets out of his car, his neighbors turn their backs on him and disappear into their houses. Ras is wearing a short black jacket and jeans. His head looks like a coarsely modeled sculpture, with his protruding cheekbones and eyes set deeply in their sockets. He is 55, and he says: "I have lost all of my friends here."
Raz, an Israeli, sits down on an old sofa in his living room and lights an Imperial, the cigarette brand favored by Palestinians. His wife enters the room and serves Nescafe with cookies. She says: "Just to make one thing clear, Benni: You don't speak for me."
UNITED NATIONS, Aug 28 (Reuters) - U.S. and Russian envoys exchanged sharp words on Thursday over Iraq and Kosovo at a U.N. Security Council meeting on Georgia, at which Russia found little support for its actions in the Caucasus. ...U.S. Deputy Ambassador Alejandro Wolff told the meeting it was a violation of the U.N. charter for member states to use force against others, or threaten to use it, and suggested that Moscow's claims to be protecting Russian citizens in Georgia's South Ossetia region were a sham. ...Russia's U.N. envoy, Vitaly Churkin, suggested Wolff's statement was hypocritical and referred to the U.S.-led March 2003 invasion of Iraq, which Moscow strongly opposed. "I would like to ask the distinguished representative of the United States -- weapons of mass destruction. Have you found them yet in Iraq or are you still looking for them?" ...Wolff accused Churkin of making false comparisons. "I'm not a psychologist and I don't know what brought on the free association we heard from Ambassador Churkin," he said. "There were divisions on the Iraq war," he said. "Those are well known. We thought we had overcome them. Apparently there are still some lingering frustrations. But there is no territorial ambition or desire to dismember Iraq."
"There were divisions on the Iraq war," he said. "Those are well known. We thought we had overcome them. Apparently there are still some lingering frustrations. But there is no territorial ambition or desire to dismember Iraq."
Unbelievable...after invading Iraq, Afghanistan and threatening Iran...American politicians know NO shame. Bastards.
Even on supposedly progressive dKos, you can get into an almighty row if you don't accept america's right to do what it likes, when it likes, to whom it likes.
inner city press also covered today's sessions Kosovo came up again and again in the debate, and then afterwards at the Press stakeout. Churkin said that while NATO had bombed Serbian television, Russia has not bombed Georgian TV, despite its content. (The reference may also have been to Rwanda's Radio Television Milles Collines, the poster child of ethnic hatred media that was also never bombed, but whose officials were later indicted and convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.) At the stakeout, Inner City Press asked Amb. Wolff about Churkin's argument, and Wolff called it specious. Inner City Press pointed out that several Security Council resolutions about Kosovo had referred to Serbia's territorial integrity, before that integrity was dismissed earlier this year. Wolff responded that Serbian territorial integrity was surrendered earlier, with Russia's approval, when resolutions were passed calling for the withdrawal of Serbian military forces from Kosovo, and turning over authority in Kosovo to the United Nations. Video here. When Inner City Press asked Churkin to respond, he said that it was the UN's administration of Kosovo which made its declaration of independence, and 45 countries' recognition of it, all the more illegal. Video here. And so it goes at the UN and Security Council.
Kosovo came up again and again in the debate, and then afterwards at the Press stakeout. Churkin said that while NATO had bombed Serbian television, Russia has not bombed Georgian TV, despite its content. (The reference may also have been to Rwanda's Radio Television Milles Collines, the poster child of ethnic hatred media that was also never bombed, but whose officials were later indicted and convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.)
At the stakeout, Inner City Press asked Amb. Wolff about Churkin's argument, and Wolff called it specious. Inner City Press pointed out that several Security Council resolutions about Kosovo had referred to Serbia's territorial integrity, before that integrity was dismissed earlier this year. Wolff responded that Serbian territorial integrity was surrendered earlier, with Russia's approval, when resolutions were passed calling for the withdrawal of Serbian military forces from Kosovo, and turning over authority in Kosovo to the United Nations. Video here.
When Inner City Press asked Churkin to respond, he said that it was the UN's administration of Kosovo which made its declaration of independence, and 45 countries' recognition of it, all the more illegal. Video here. And so it goes at the UN and Security Council.
nner City Press pointed out that several Security Council resolutions about Kosovo had referred to Serbia's territorial integrity, before that integrity was dismissed earlier this year. Wolff responded that Serbian territorial integrity was surrendered earlier, with Russia's approval, when resolutions were passed calling for the withdrawal of Serbian military forces from Kosovo, and turning over authority in Kosovo to the United Nations. Video here.
Here is bloody resolution 1244 saying:
http://www.nato.int/Kosovo/docu/u990610a.htm
Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region, as set out in the Helsinki Final Act and annex 2, Reaffirming the call in previous resolutions for substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo,
Reaffirming the call in previous resolutions for substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo,
by and large the UN is only as effective as the superpowers want it to be. Right now, that only seems to be when the UN agrees with them, but not when it rules against them. keep to the Fen Causeway
it would be truly moronic to believe otherwise... ~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~
