Croatia is a "small country for a big vacation", as the ads tell you. But beyond the marketing and optimistic reports of millions of holidaymakers spending their "big vacation" there, there is less cheerful news, casting an unpleasant shadow over that small tourist paradise on the Adriatic. This summer Dinko Sakic, the 86-year-old former commander of Jasenovac, the notorious second world war concentration camp, was buried in his Ustashe uniform, the Croatian equivalent of the Nazis. After the war, Sakic emigrated to Argentina but returned after Croatian independence in 1991. He was welcomed back like a celebrity. In his interviews, Sakic repeated that he regretted nothing. What Sakic should have repented was that tens of thousands of inmates in Jasenovac were murdered under his command. He also personally executed two Jewish prisoners. Franjo Tudjman's government showed no will to put Sakic on trial until Israel signalled it was perfectly willing to try him there. So in 1998, Sakic was sentenced to a maximum of 20 years. At his funeral a Dominican priest, Vjekoslav Lasic gave a speech in which he advised Croats to admire Sakic and to take him as an example.
This summer Dinko Sakic, the 86-year-old former commander of Jasenovac, the notorious second world war concentration camp, was buried in his Ustashe uniform, the Croatian equivalent of the Nazis. After the war, Sakic emigrated to Argentina but returned after Croatian independence in 1991. He was welcomed back like a celebrity. In his interviews, Sakic repeated that he regretted nothing. What Sakic should have repented was that tens of thousands of inmates in Jasenovac were murdered under his command. He also personally executed two Jewish prisoners. Franjo Tudjman's government showed no will to put Sakic on trial until Israel signalled it was perfectly willing to try him there. So in 1998, Sakic was sentenced to a maximum of 20 years. At his funeral a Dominican priest, Vjekoslav Lasic gave a speech in which he advised Croats to admire Sakic and to take him as an example.
besides, they look great in their uniforms, like clark gable...
pre-fascism, with your fettucini The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it. Chinese Proverb.
Maybe The West™ will wake up to the unsavoury side of Croatia's nationalism 10 to 15 years after they should have... A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
The Royal Serbian army, better known as "the chetnics", under the command of general Draza Mihailovic, saved a total number of 513 American pilots during WW2. ...General Draza was awarded the Legion of Merit for his heroic deeds. ...Legion of Merit is the highest USA decoration meant for foreign citizens for exceptional merits. Draza Mihailovic was decorated at the proposal of USA General Dwight Eisenhower. ...Hollywood even made a movie during WW2 about the Serbian chetnics, which are today portrayed as some sort of animals that bite off people's ears and stuff... ...He did indeed earn the Legion of Merit after the war, and it was indeed kept secret -- to avoid offending Tito's Yugoslavia.
Mind you most of these pilots were saved even after the Allies had made the decision to abandon supporting General Draza Mihailovic's Chetniks and switch to supporting Tito's Communist Partizans in late 1943, after the Chetniks had paved the way for a German defeat in Yugoslavia. ...in Serbia and Eastern Bosnia the Serbs fought against the Germans to the end. ...Tito, the half Croat/half Slovene, took enjoyment turning his Partizan army made up of at least 80% Serbs on fellow Serbian Chetniks. He didn't give a rat's arse about the Serbian population and this was proved by the fact that Croatian Ustashe run death camps especially in Jasenovac and Stara Gradiska were liberated by the Russian Red Army despite the fact that the Partizans were in a position to do so as the Ustashe at the end of 1944 were well and truly defeated and most of their troops fled towards Austria.
It's interesting that even Stalin supported Mihailovich up until 1943, and he switched to Tito later, in 1944. But Tito and the communist owe their power in Yugoslavia mainly to the support of Churchill and the British. ...Even though the Chetnics did cooperate with the Germans and the Italians from time to time (if there wasn't for the Italians and the partisans, Serbian population in Croatia would've been completely annihilated by the Croats), but that cooperation mainly came to agreements of non-attacking, or attacking the communists. ...After Tito completely took over, and after the war ended, the communists killed in cold blood thousands and thousands of "disloyal" Serbs who weren't communists. Considering other nations living in Yugoslavia, almost all of them collaborated with the NAZI's. The Croats even created a Nazi satellite state NDH (the Independent state of Croatia) and conducted one of the worst ever genocide against the Serbian population, almost 1 million Serbs, according to some estimations. ...The Croats and the Muslims in Bosnia, later greatly supported by western countries during the latest wars, were members of the largest SS division Hitler ever had. It was called 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian). Quote: The 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) was one of the thirty-eight divisions fielded as part of the Waffen-SS during World War II. It was the largest of the SS divisions, with 21,065 men at its peak[citation needed], composed almost entirely of non-German Muslim and Catholic recruits drawn from Bosnia. Handschar (Bosnian/Croatian: Handžar) was the local word for the Turkish scimitar (Arabic: Khanjar خنجر), a historical symbol of Bosnia and Islam. An image of the Handschar adorned the division's flag and coat of arms.
Considering other nations living in Yugoslavia, almost all of them collaborated with the NAZI's. The Croats even created a Nazi satellite state NDH (the Independent state of Croatia) and conducted one of the worst ever genocide against the Serbian population, almost 1 million Serbs, according to some estimations. ...The Croats and the Muslims in Bosnia, later greatly supported by western countries during the latest wars, were members of the largest SS division Hitler ever had. It was called 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian). Quote: The 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian) was one of the thirty-eight divisions fielded as part of the Waffen-SS during World War II. It was the largest of the SS divisions, with 21,065 men at its peak[citation needed], composed almost entirely of non-German Muslim and Catholic recruits drawn from Bosnia. Handschar (Bosnian/Croatian: Handžar) was the local word for the Turkish scimitar (Arabic: Khanjar خنجر), a historical symbol of Bosnia and Islam. An image of the Handschar adorned the division's flag and coat of arms.
After the war, he (Mihajlovic) was tried and convicted of high treason by Yugoslav authorities, and was consequently executed by firing squad. ...However, Mihailović decided against active resistance, allegedly because of Serb losses in World War I, in which the Kingdom of Serbia lost a quarter of its male population to the war.[2] Instead, Mihailović gathered men and weapons in the easily defensible Serbian mountains, waiting for an Allied landing in the Balkans, upon which he could attack any Germans or Italians from behind. Mihailović discouraged sabotage due to German reprisals (such as more than 3,000 killed in Kraljevo and Kragujevac) unless some great gain could be accomplished; instead, he favored delayed sabotage that could not easily be traced.
And so on...
And great to see you here on ET more often again!
Throughout the War, the Chetnik movement remained relatively inactive against the occupation forces, and increasingly collaborated with the Axis, losing its international recognition as the Yugoslav resistance force. After a brief initial period of cooperation, the two factions quickly started fighting against each-other. Gradually, the Chetniks ended up primarily fighting the Partisans instead of the occupation forces, and started cooperating with the Axis in their struggle to destroy the resistance, receiving increasing amounts of logistical assistance (in particular, from Italy).
During the Yugoslav wars, Serb paramilitaries often self-identified as Chetniks. Vojislav Šešelj's Serbian Radical Party formed the White Eagles which was identified as Chetniks. Vuk Drašković's Serbian Renewal Movement was closely associated with the Serbian Guard, which was also associated with Chetniks and monarchism.
In late 2004, the National Assembly of Serbia passed a new law that equalized the rights of the former Chetnik members with those of the former Partisans, including the right to war pensions. Rights were granted on the basis that both were anti-fascist movements that fought occupiers, and this formulation has entered the law. The vote was 176 for, 24 against and 4 abstained. The Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) of Slobodan Milošević was the one voting against the decision.
Today Chetnik activity is seriously restricted or banned in all neighbouring countries other than Serbia and Republika Srpska in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Milorad Pupovac of the Independent Democratic Serbian Party in Croatia, has called the organization "fascist collaborators". In 2003, the Montenegrin government forbade the building of a statue of Pavle Đurišić near Berane.
We have had discussions of similar Polish and Baltic factions in the past... A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
They were both patriots, and fascist.
Well I don't think so. As I said looks like they did cooperate at some points with Germans and Italians against communists but they were far from fascists. Ideologically they were NO fascists. As opposed to Ustashe that were WORSE then German fascists.Ideologically and in practice... Would Americans give Legion of Merit to a fascist? Looking at the present time...Well one never knows haha. What your Croat friends have to say about Ustashe ?...I am curious...
Hey, it's well-documented that the Americans enlisted former Nazis to fight the Communists after WWII, so...
I never debated WWII with my Croatian friends, but I can tell you a large part of them had no patience for Tudjman.
Interestingly it tended to be either older people, or the girls my age. The boys my age (they were between 15 and 20 in the early 90's) were all gung-ho nationalists. Must be a side effect of the high testosterone levels. A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
Also you really shouldn't make the mistake of saying that because they fought against one set of fascists that somehow makes them non-fascist. The Polish fascist resistance group NSZ, for example, consistently fought the Nazis during the occupation, but they were very much fascists - more so actually than the Chetniks, and just as much as the Ustashe.
We have had this debate before, and I have conceded your point that Franco was a soft fascist.
But I'll still call him a fascist anyway even if it's not 100% accurate in political science terms.
Franco may not have been a fascist, but the CEDADE and the Falange were straight-out pascists, and he folded them into his National Movement. A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
Not quite sure how the Ustashe were worse than the Nazis.
Those who presented (or still present) their selves as Chetnics nowadays have absolutely nothing to do with real Chetnics organization that is actually non-existent nowadays. Some oldies may still live somewhere in exile but they are really old and totally out of touch with what is really happening on the Balkan. Sheshelj used them to get hold of their money representing him self as Chetnic (and he can't be farther then that).Similar thing is with Drashkovic. Those oldies finally realized those false Chetnics are only interested in their money and they do not want to have anything with those thieves.
But Tito and the communist owe their power in Yugoslavia mainly to the support of Churchill and the British.
When talking to Croatian friends in the 90's they would accuse Yugoslavia of being a Serb supremacist device to destroy Croatians as an independent people, and when I said "but Tito was a Croat" they said "but he was a Communist".
It's all about bogeymen, and when the ethnicity of the bogeyman is not the right one you can always blame the Communists. (Like Stalin the Georgian and Brezhnev the Ukrainian)
Bah, humbug. A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
Who is you? Not me, that's for sure. A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
