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Essentially all the important work in electronics, computers, the internet and communications has come out of the US or been based upon such original work.

No, this is completely untrue. The US did some of the original work, but by no means all of it.

The web was invented at CERN by an Englishman. Packet switching was invented in the UK. The original Turing description of state machines which is the basis of modern programming was invented in the UK. The first stored-program computer was built in either the UK or Germany, depending on who you ask. The idea of the integrated circuit was invented in the UK.

What the US had was the resources to develop and monetise these innovations and the evangelical marketing cadres to proselytise them to the rest of the world.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 02:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The web was invented at CERN by an Englishman.

Yes, but we're the ones who put porn on it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 02:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm fairly the US also invented credit cards, without which none of this would be possible.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 04:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it might be possible, but it wouldn't be as awesome.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 04:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Credit cards, I think they did (to start with it was just a dining card, valid only in restaurants).

But the chip card was invented in France, marketed in the US alas (the call of money was way too great for the inventor), but France was a much earlier adopter. Even today, there is far greater use of chip cards and contactless cards in France than in the US (Japan has more contactless though -they tend to lead the US and Europe by a few years rather than follow).

Similarly, Minitel was around in France years before the internet became public. Again, it's the lack of opportunity to monetise and impose a standard to the world that made it decay compared to US based alternatives.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 08:11:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dixit Cyrille:
Similarly, Minitel was around in France years before the internet became public. Again, it's the lack of opportunity to monetise and impose a standard to the world that made it decay compared to US based alternatives.

Well, I tend to dissent. There was money and political interest enough, in a way even too much. There has been engaged research. What killed Europe's part in this story was the political clout of the PTTs, which envisioned a closed system – perhaps just for a lack of imagination and not out of outright monopolistic instincts :-)

(I remember, however, the German PTT (Post), obtaining an ordinance banning the use of (packet switched) networks at around the same time that the FCC in the US banned extra charges for the leased lines in such networks. Years later, when you wanted to connect a computer to the telephone network (via a modem), while AT&T send a leaflet with instructions for you, the German Post Office send you the police.)

Then the European Commission – in what appears to be a dry run for the Lisbon program – joined the PTTs in instigating the OSI effort. It apparently intended to obfuscate computer networking enough to confuse the Americans out of the market . . .

There is a funny vestige of this time in the OSI model. There one finds a presentation layer designed to accommodate various encodings. This works only as intended with pure character data, as in a terminal device. It is out of place in most  other situations (and awkward to implement). Amusingly this model has found much pedagogical use.

So, I'm afraid, the Minitel was down a blind alley (what it promised would later become the Web-Browser).
An American Minitel or IPhone would have failed as well, then. (Cf., for a discussion of the recent trend towards web-appliances the book The future of the Internet and how to stop it/ Jonathan Zittrain. New Haven, c2008. )

by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 06:06:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you're probably right, but my impression was that one reason they wanted to close the system because the alternative was USA reaping all the rewards without suffering any of the costs.

Now, indeed closing it was not going to give you a massive expansion such as the web saw, but it would be unfair to say that Minitel did not significantly contribute to the internet. It saw the creation of many online businesses, with a business model that was far more credible than a lot of the dot coms startups.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 at 03:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I also seem (belatedly) to detect a very nice and subtle irony in the "without which none of this would be possible".

Suffice to say it's probably not a compliment ;-)

Hint for those who truly need it: credit bubble anyone?

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 08:12:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, but US companies registered all the domain names so that if a European Company wanted to go online it had to pay for the right to use its own name.  US Companies are also starting to patent the genome - something I would have thought was everyone's birthright.  US courts consistently support US companies against "foreign" interests.  Other national jurisdictions often do the same.  But being the dominant world power gives you the ability to create an uphill playing field for everyone else.  Much of the US economic dominance was predicated on military/political dominance.  "US" interests often being defined by US multi-nationals.

Now the energy situation is re-tilting the playing pitch in favour of net energy producers and you can hear the outrage of the neo-cons that they are having to pay what somebody else decides is a fair price.  Even military intervention isn't enough to maintain that dominance any more.  

The reality is the rules will increasingly be written by others.  This is a recipe for huge and sustained international conflict unless a system of global governance can be put in place which takes the interests of all the players into account.

The EU is a model of how that can be done at a regional level.  We probably need to do it at a global level if the post WW2 era of relative peace and prosperity is not going to break down irrevocably.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 02:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll second thatbritguy's comment. Though there's no question that US innovation has added much to today's existence, so have other regions, just as significantly.  Hell, even MP3 comes from Deutschland.

The framing around the discussion is not accurate, however.  US institutions themselves are in serious decline, as is the infrastructure.  Japan and Europe have far more advanced phone and mobile networks, and the regional grids are not decrepit. Rail innovation, so crucial to the next generation, is also far more developed.

The US democracy is so broken as to be a joke.  Voter fraud is the most sophisticated in the world, and has a history going back two centuries.  The influence of capital in the game has reached absurd levels.  The Fourth Estate has become the world's most sophisticated propaganda network.

Where other regions really shine is in current technological innovation.  The kind of innovation which matters to the next generation's survival.  Renewable technologies, for example, are a complete product of European innovation; now even including the commercial aspects globally.  Compare that to Detroit.  Even GE's US market leading wind turbine is German, and the leading German machine in the US, Siemens, is Danish.  The rest come from Japan, Spain, India and other European entries.  Even the most capitalized US startup uses technology from the Swedish wind program.

Same with solar.

I have direct personal experience with how US courts denied obvious prior art in European technology, while the US company that "won" was bankrupt within two years.  The technology is still withheld from the US, and it is the premier technology in my field.  Justice is available to corporations and the rich, and that's it.

There's no question there's still much innovation to come from amurka, but not likely until the beast is battered and the nation is digging out from its own financial meltdown.

Amurka is a dinosaur, but it still drives the world's condition, today mostly negatively.  

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 03:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Japan and Europe have far more advanced phone and mobile networks, and the regional grids are not decrepit.

The iPhone's cheaper here, though. :P

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 04:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not if you count getting dropped off 3G far less often.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 12th, 2008 at 06:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LINUX is not from the US. The internet runs on linux boxes by and large.
by irishhead on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 11:24:31 AM EST
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Linux is not Linus Torvalds and thus Finnish. It is an international project, of which American developers play a large role.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 02:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's correct. And still they don't count more than the, say, Brazilians.

That's new, and satisfying.

by Humbug (mailklammeraffeschultedivisstrackepunktde) on Wed Aug 13th, 2008 at 08:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Linux kernel was written and named by Finn Torvalds (1991).The utilities and libraries were written by US hacker Richard Stallman by 1983,  for his GNU OS. Many nationalities have contributed to the development of Linux.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Aug 14th, 2008 at 07:27:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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