But the US and assorted clients are not the world. What does China say? India? Mercosur? Asean? Iran? Africa?
- Jake If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.
Confused, indifferent?
We have trouble identifying a European public sphere, which means a European public opinion might not exist, but globally? A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
That sentence makes absolutely no sense to me because in the case of international affairs their skills are only as good as they are effective vis-à-vis the way in which Western(TM) press operates. These do not exists in respective vacuums when we're speaking of foreign relations (domestic affairs is of course a different matter, but we're talking about foreign relations here.) It would be the equivalent of saying "it has less to do with Russian military defense skills than the way in which NATO operates." In a conflict between the two, the effectiveness of one is measured by the ineffectiveness of the other.
Very good question. But as much as I would love for Mercosur media to strongly influence the attitudes of Americans toward Russia, I don't think they do. It's not fair, but it is true. Let me be clear I could not agree more with the following
If I wanted to hear guidance and opinion on the Russia-Georgia debacle, I'd fish a mongrel cat out of the trash-bin and listen to its theories before I'd listen to these two. What does the President of the Republic of Burundi think about this situation? His opinion ought to matter more. -Natalia Antonova
As to "But the US and assorted clients are not the world," I've certainly never claimed it is (and am frankly peeved about how everyone has taken my comment and turned it on its head, taken it to imply things no rational person would ever think). Russia hasn't illustrated a concern for the opinions of those in most countries, but it is the US and assorted clients which it's at odds with at the moment, so that's why we're talking about them. If Georgia were armed by and an ally of India, we'd be talking about India's opinion of Russia. "Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
That sentence makes absolutely no sense to me because in the case of international affairs their skills are only as good as they are effective vis-à-vis the way in which Western(TM) press operates.
Assuming that Russia is playing to the Western(TM) crowd. Which is not at all clear. Frankly I don't know whose crowd the Russians are playing to other than their own.
Anyway, sorry if I misconstrued your comment.
That was PRECISELY the point of my original comment. "Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
Seen from here (though it's true it's impossible to define a "European" opinion, and views differ depending on where in Europe you are), I don't get the impression Georgia succeeded in fully persuading people of the rightness of its cause and its victim status. When you see the generally Atlanticist Spiegel print this from its correspondent in Tbilisi:
Fragile Cease-fire : Russian Army Clears Out Georgian Army Bases - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News
Liars don't tend to be believed. That is why news agencies and foreign correspondents reacted calmly to the announcement from the Georgian National Security Council on Wednesday morning that 50 Russian tanks had just rolled into the Georgian town of Gori. Unfortunately, Gerorgia's security council has lost its credibility. Georgia has made official announcements before about attacks that didn't happen -- as have the Russians.
Unfortunately, Gerorgia's security council has lost its credibility. Georgia has made official announcements before about attacks that didn't happen -- as have the Russians.
outright calling the Georgians liars, it seems clear the communications plan hasn't worked too well for Saakashvili. This is not isolated, there's been a certain breeze of scepticism blowing through a significant part of the European media (that I've seen) regarding Georgia's claims.
However, it seems the rolling fire of unverifiable-for-the-moment claims went over more successfully in the American media. Better orchestrated for those media? Planned in advance for them? The Nation piece about Randy Scheuneman, for four years a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government, ending his official lobbying connection only in March, months after he became Republican presidential candidate Senator John McCain's senior foreign policy adviser (cited in Frank's diary here), is intriguing. Even if this is not a Wag The Dog play intended to sharpen the contours of the New Cold War and bring McCain on, "Georgian" PR certainly seems to have been conceived of with the American media in mind. Or is reality more nuanced?
Russia Not Being Imperialistic!
Putin Is Not Hitler
Putin for US president - more than ever
A CZAR IS BORN: BAD VLAD WINS WAR, DUPES WEST & PROVES HE'S GENIUS
LOL. Sorry. How can I resist? "Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
Sorry I wasted your time.
As to the American media treatment of Georgia's PR, there has not been much if any - everything from Georgia was taken as fact. "Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
Very nice. The Fates are kind.
They are not all following the neo-con line. The Fates are kind.
There is another side apart from the propoganda operations of western media. Take time out to sit down and chat with ordinary people and guage things for yourself. I persoanlly live, work and travel SE Asia. The perspective I get is that Putin has always been admired as a leader who sticks up for his own countries intersts and doesnt bend over for the USA. Even now many out here see the Georgia conflict very different from how the western media play it. Then again when you have repeatedly seen how the western media lie about things you know better about you become a bit more discerning of what you are presented with than the average westerner or at Least Amrerican who is far more likely to buy into the crap peddled by the free media. The intense unpopularity of America even in SE Asia (it is worse in many other places) should also not be underestimated in forming a global opinion that is not the one that western media, PR companies, analysts, pollsters and other such propoganda outlets will have you believe is actually reality. In this day and age the propoganda war is of such importance that you really dont know who you can trust in terms or sources. In short what is described as global opinion is just another creation of a propoganda machine. True global opinion is not something that is ever reallyu measured and is somethign I would hazard a guess that nobody in Washington would actually want anyone knowing.
