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Are many.

  1. Power is far more expensive there than in other parts of the US.

  2. This has driven energy intensive industries out of state.

  3. This has in turn kept per capita demand low. Increasing consumer demand has been compensated by a loss of industry demand, and industry jobs.

  4. California has kept its generating capacity down by only allowing new gas fired capacity. This has lead to large scale power imports. Hydropower from the Northwest, nuclear and coal from places like Arizona, LNG from all over the place (if gets built).

  5. The developed nations with the radically lowest per capita CO2 emissions are France, Sweden and Switzerland. These nations also have some of the highest per capita power consumption and lowest power prices. This is no coincidence, and it has nothing to do with windpower.


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 at 08:46:41 AM EST
1. Electricity is more expensive in California than in much of the US but not in all of it. The California price is roughly equivalent to the price in New York and New England.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html

2. This is questionable. I have yet to see any data that California's loss of manufacturing jobs is the result of power rates in the state. In any case the loss is insufficient to explain the fact that Californians per capita electricity use is only 2/3 that of the US as a whole.

Additionally, a recent study shows that by investing in green jobs California can create 200,000 new high paying jobs.

 http://www.cleanpower.org/reports_pdf/Harvesting_California_Renewable_Energy_Resources_080815_FINAL_ 1st_Ed.pdf

  1. Dependent on your assertion number 2 being true. Please provide any links to data that you have. Moreover, are you denying the value of the conservation measures taken in California? Without those measures Californians would be using far more power than they do now, and emitting more greenhouse gases, regardless of whether your assertion 2 is correct.

  2. We're talking electricity consumption here not production.  Of course it is bad to import electricity from other states or elsewhere if it is coal generated.  The need to do this though is the result of flawed US energy policy which still relies on coal and does little to promote, wind, solar or geothermal.

  3. France relies for 3/4 of its power on nuclear, Sweden and Switzerland for about 1/2. As far as I'm concerned they can have it. I'll take wind, solar and geothermal over nuclear any time.

Nearly all of the remaining electricity generation for the latter two is hydroelectric, which is not available everywhere. In places where hydroelectric power is available in the US, such as Washington State, GHG emissions are lower and prices are lower. As to prices, the price of electricity for a residential customer in California is cheaper than it is for a residential customer in France, Sweden and Swizerland. Commercial electricity is slighly higher than in France and Sweden, and a little cheaper than in Swizerland.

For France and Switzerland and US see here:

http://www.iea.org/Textbase/nppdf/free/2007/key_stats_2007.pdf

For Sweden see here:

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PGP_PRD_CAT_PREREL/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2006/PG E_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2006_MONTH_07/8-14072006-EN-AP1.PDF

I don't really understand the point of your comment. It it's that things aren't perfect in California, that's a straw man, since I never said they were.  My post argues that generating alternative energy alone is insufficient, that it must be combined with measures to enhance energy efficiency. Our goal should be to stop using fossil fuels in order to avoid Climaticide. To do that we need alternative non-fossil fuels and energy efficiency in order to do more with less. The goal isn't to consume more energy, it's to achieve more with less energy.

"My True Religion Is Kindness" -- The Dalai Lama

by JohnnyRook (johnnyrook1@gmail.com) on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 at 04:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wanted to point out that the Californian example of energy policy isn't one to follow. I'm obviously not saying efficiency isn't important because it really is. But no matter how efficient your consumption is you still need power generation. And when you look at the big pciture, both generation and consumption, I'd say France, Sweden and Switzerland are much better examples than California.

Focusing on saving energy in the pulp and paper industry etc. may not seem very exciting at first glance, but you never know what a country might do to pick up an easy extra trillion bucks (and cut greenhouse gas emissions at the same time)

I agree completely here, except I'd like to add that these companies have energy as one of their biggest costs (often a bigger cost than wages) and hence try very hard to minimize their consumption. The kind of companies which are often criticised for being energy in-efficient are usually those that don't use very much power, like manufacturing.

And from a climate point of view the goal is not to use less energy, because the thing that allegedly changes the climate is not energy consumption but greenhouse gas emissions. I'm all for using more energy as long as we don't emit more CO2. Remember something like half out two thirds of all people on the planet still lack access to electricity. Using more energy is a given.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 at 09:47:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... to use less energy. High income nations saying, "low income nations are going to use more energy, therefore we must too" would be absurd ... unless high income nations pioneer sustainable energy systems, low income nations that have the opportunity will follow the well-trodden path of unsustainable energy systems.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 06:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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