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You're energy obsessed.

The basic problem is the second one: the ruling value system is one of hard power, hard negotiation, "winner takes all" and other macho values. Sitting down and talking, assessing common interests and finding ways of making everyone gain from an agreement are sad, girly and pinko. Our society, and our politics is out of balance: more so in some places than others.

Hard power is for stopping other people using hard power, not a tool with which to achieve any lasting ends.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:13:31 AM EST
Actually there are lasting ends you can achieve with hard power, but they're pretty much all crimes against humanity.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:15:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My point being that you have it backwards: we're idiots about energy because our ruling value system is fucked up. Cause and effect.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:22:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I did note that there were two distinct strands there: energy and "winner-take-all."

I'm genuinely uncertain as to which one drives the other, if at all.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:39:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Winner take all" is a primal power motivator that has been around for thousands of years.  Energy is just a more recent focus for the application of that motivation.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 12:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Winner take all" is a strategy, really appropriate only to circumstances where you won't have to deal with the loser again.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 01:02:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Its a dynamic system ... its not self-reproducing unless the different drivers reproduce each other.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 02:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're assuming that energy policy is as important a driver as the underlying ideology, which does not seem true: a sane energy policy is not possible in the current environment, so we have an insane one.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 at 05:49:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I'm not assuming that. I'm saying that the pursuit of their perceived interests by powerful actors reinforces the set of institutions which serve to reproduce what you reify as "the underlying ideology", that that set of institutions reinforces the power of those actors, and that under those institutions, their self interest leads them to demand government actions which appear incoherent as a policy response to a problem.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 at 10:28:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"... our ruling value system is fucked up."

Interesting phrase.  I wonder how the ET citizens would respond to the question, "Please describe THE GOOD LIFE as you see it, not that you are necessarily currently living it.  Or, please describe THE HEALTHY HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY or PERSONALITY."  Answers to either could prove enlightening.

The reason I post this is because the people who ascribe to "our ruling value system" are those that run things and, I suspect, in their opinion, anyone NOT buying into their definition of WINNING are simply disgruntled losers.  In their mind, anyone not like them are the fucked up ones.  So who's right?

Now where's the fun in that! - Megatron

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 at 09:41:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
Hard power is for stopping other people using hard power

Not even that - hard power is an end in itself, with little or no interest in strategic outcomes.

Hence the missile waving and the random blowing up of shit for the sake of it.

Energy is non-military power, so it's entirely consistent to try to have a monopoly on both, and to be more interested in forms of energy generation which are explosive, dangerous and can be monopolised and leveraged, than caring sharing girly-man DFH sustainables.

Our leaders are teenagers. Especially the older ones.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:54:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I meant that the only correct use of hard power is for stopping other hard power.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 10:56:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thirty years ago I called PLAYBOY the apotheosis of arrested adolescence.  A more appropriate use for the term would be the GOP since Reagan.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 21st, 2008 at 12:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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