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according to the Anglo-American press:

Some Britons Too Unruly for Resorts in Europe - NYTimes.com

"They scream, they sing, they fall down, they take their clothes off, they cross-dress, they vomit," Malia's mayor, Konstantinos Lagoudakis, said in an interview. "It is only the British people -- not the Germans or the French."

Malia is the latest and currently most notorious in a long list of European resorts full of young British tourists on packaged tours offering cheap alcohol and a license to behave badly. In Magaluf and Ibiza, Spain; in Ayia Napa, Cyprus; and in the Greek resorts of Faliraki, Kavos and Laganas as well as Malia, the story is the same: They come, they drink, they wreak havoc.

<...>

... "for 10 weeks, this place is littered with kids being sick and unconscious in the streets."

Just then, several young men who had the pale, queasy look that suggested the end of hangovers not yet muted by new infusions of alcohol, passed by, and Mr. Fisher asked them why they drank so much, night after night.

"It's what everyone wants to do," one young man said.

His friend said: "We have stressful jobs, and we don't get much time off, and we like to enjoy ourselves and have a good laugh. And we love a bargain."



Cynicism is intellectual treason.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 11:29:07 AM EST
As I mentioned this morning, it's really been going on a long time, but hopefully as the era of cheap flights draws to a close we'll stop trashing the mediterranean.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 12:32:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But Britons will continue trashing the UK.

Living in Liverpool it is impressive how people behave either while drunk (which happens a lot from the perspective of most European countries, save maybe Scandinavia) or when there are no rules to follow.

Queuing is my favorite:
When there is a clear queue (i.e. rule) to follow, everybody behaves perfectly, but when people are either drunk or there is no clear rule, its every (wo)men for (him/her)self. Buying at M&S is easy, getting a drink at a pub (or an hamburger at McD at 2am in the morning) is almost impossible unless you almost smack someone.

I have never seen such an amount of uncivilized behavior elsewhere.

I think England (whole UK?) is where the dutch concept of "social controle" is really to be seen: people behave correctly because of social pressure only, not because it is best to do so. When the social pressure is off, then it is dog eat dog mentality that is probably the hallmark of the anglo-disease.

At the end of the day this is probably another symptom of the anglo-disease: pervasive "dog eat dog" mentality. The only brakes are social control and the attached political correctness (which are, BTW, a disaster to democracy and freedom of thinking, but that is an other issue).

by t-------------- on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 01:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Buying at M&S is easy, getting a drink at a pub (or an hamburger at McD at 2am in the morning) is almost impossible unless you almost smack someone.

Breaking bottles over people's heads was the custom in Notts.  I guess Brits are more civilized in Liverpool.

There's a reason The Tragedy of the Commons takes place in Britain.  A good chunk of the country doesn't grok the whole concept of upkeep.  I remarked to my friends over there that if rural Southerners in America were forced to live in townhouses (the horror) and watch gay tv shows for a few hours per day, they'd be Brits.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:20:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that's a horrible thing to say about rural southerners

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:24:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The possibility of living in townhouses?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
being brits, oh wilfully obtuse one.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:37:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I try.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:47:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, you're very trying.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh pssshhhh, you miss me.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:04:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but my aim is improving

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I rather think you should avoid things requiring aim.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why ? Am I getting close ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, hence the comment.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:22:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just getting the range

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you say so.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...oh wilfully obtuse one.

With foresight and intent he has an angle greater than 90° and less than 180°?

by ATinNM on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:08:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, you've read my resume.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1. Liverpool... North of England ET Meet?

  2. Pubs are actually incredibly ritualised places. Full of social control (at least in between the fights):

http://www.sirc.org/publik/pub.html
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Manchester might be more accessible.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:01:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is Manchester more easily accessible than Liverpool?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Either will be easily accessible from my new location.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone is making money off this. Perhaps the first step might be to tax some of those profits for cleanup/riot control?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 01:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My recommendation for the US is to place a 100% tax on alcohol advertisements and devote the proceeds to clean up.  This should start with trauma care and psychological counseling for innocent victims and for victims of spousal abuse.  Make it more expensive to encourage anti-social behavior.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 01:51:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It doesn't appear to be price sensitive behaviour.  There is always cheap booze for those determined enough to drink filth. And the worst behaviour rarely happens around pubs that serve cheap high quality beer, rather they want high priced crap lager to swill by the bucket.

And nbody seems able to provide an epxlanation as to why the French, with much lower booze prices, don't exhibit the same behaviour. Aside from exploring cultural differences that don't fit the comforting Brits-rule tabloid preference.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Increase the tax as required to prevent brewers and bottlers from being able to profit from glorifying and validating this sort of destructive behavior.  If the brewer had to pay a 300% tax on advertising, it might not affect the boozer so much as the behavior of the brewer.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not like smoking.  Smoking might give you a nice feeling briefly, but it's not the fun intoxication that getting drunk provides.  If you smoke enough to actually get high, you're probably going to regret it.  But with booze, you could make the tax 500% (hell, you could ban advertising on it), and people are still going to get tanked and do stupid shit, because people know alcohol has that effect, and many like to get tanked and happen to do stupid shit once tanked.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I imagine that would be extremely easy to evade, they'd just change the focus of what is being advertised.

F'r instance, there are rules about how much beer is served in a glass and there is a constant war of attrition between brewers and consumers about this. One more ingenious suggestion by one brewer was that they weren't selling you a pint of beer, they were selling you a leisure experience.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:42:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am convinced such a tax could be implemented, however, not under the current US campaign finance system.  A large loophole would certainly be inserted.  It is the same problem with every legislative attempt to reduce tax  "avoidance" by the upper income brackets--convincing >50% of legislators to simultaneously bite the hands that feed them.  Tall order, but it would be a wonderful spectacle!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From the point of view of financing vomit cleanup/riot control (not to mention healthcare, liver treatments etc.) - all the better that it's not price sensitive behaviour...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One could make a good argument that massive taxation of  beer advertising, corporate profits derived from beer sales, etc. is more socially responsible than legalizing gambling.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And nbody seems able to provide an epxlanation as to why the French, with much lower booze prices, don't exhibit the same behaviour.

The secret is simple: food. Good food. And talking about food.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The secret is simple: food. Good food. And talking about food.

Fixed.  It's not that they lack food.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
even bad food will help - as long as you take it at the same time as drinking. The problem is drinking and not eating.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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