European Tribune - Comments - European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 2. September | 101 comments (101 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 5)

I would be willing to bet that there are significant improvements in railroad aerodynamic drag that will be developed. The current shape of trains is in no way aerodynamic, compared to a low drag car.

Even advanced "maglev" trains are pretty crude from the airflow viewpoint.

by asdf on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 06:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 2)

Is that lower picture the new Chuo express line in Japan? I've seen promotional posters in various places about it, but didn't know if it was actually under construction or just a project proposal.

by Zwackus on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 06:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 2)

Methinks its a photo on the test track built in the eighties.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:37:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (none / 1)

Although I'd see the need of testing tunnel aerodynamics, building a test track in mountaineous terrain sounds expensive ?

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (none / 1)

With all flat areas in Japan built up and land prices prior to the end of the Japanese housing market crash, I'm not so sure...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:36:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 3)

Also, the whole route they're planning for the Chuo is mountains. Chuo means center, and it would run right through the center of Japan from Tokyo to Kyoto/Osaka, through a route that's at least 70% mountain. If they built the test track on part of the proposed route, it'd save money later, I guess.

And the train looks identical to the ones in the promo posters. And with that style of big stone retaining wall in the background, I think it could only be in Japan.

by Zwackus on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (none / 1)

You are of course right, the photo shows the world record holder (581 km/h) MLX01 train on the 18.4 km Yamanashi Test Track (I think exactly here, looking Westward); of which, according to Wikipedia, 16.0 km(!) are in tunnels. (BTW, further to asdf, the two end cars have different designs, and one was further optimised aerodynamically with an even longer nose, see photos on Japanese Wiki) I checked and found that I was off concerning the time of construction: the original test track was built in the seventies, while the current one (different location) in 1990-1996, thus after the Japanese real estate/asset price bubble burst.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 2)

Hm, it may look crude, but I bet it has pretty good airflow. It's just that with one seat, three gears and a high body, you can have more elegant curving lines than for a wide-bodied, long rail-riding something. Also, the best aerodynamic shape for a train is something not sleek but un-aesthetic: the 'duckbill' shape displayed by the Talgo350, the newer Shinkansens, and (moderately) by the French AGV (better resistance to the toppling forces of side winds).

High-speed train shape and external surface count most in noise. Both the French AGV and the JR East Fastech prototypes tried their utmost. There was also the idea to reduce drag by applying the pattern of shark skin, but that's difficult, and what about all the dirt and bugs collected up from the air ahead of the train.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:14:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 3)

As an example of the ugly duckbill shape referred to downthread, here is the most modern Shinkansen, the Series N700 (a 300 km/h full-speed tilting train)sporting the arguably best aerodynamics of in-service trains today:

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 01:52:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 3)

...and here is a picture of the 1:20 model of a German Railways ICE train with 'shark skin' (or golf ball?) surface in a wind canal:

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 01:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 2)

FYI It is normally and colloquially referred to as a wind tunnel.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 02:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This, That, and the Other (4.00 / 2)

I know, sorry for the momentary lapse into Germanisms...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 02:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 2. September | 101 comments (101 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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