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Tinyurling works if the task is merely to simplify long addresses. I don't know how to design a frontpage that is less confusing, though.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 10:44:20 AM EST
How do you Tinyurl a Eurotrib web address?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 10:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
http://tinyurl.com/

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 11:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Many thanks.  I have created the TinyURL http://tinyurl.com/FrankSchnittger which is shorter and easier to type but rather defeats the purpose of giving some publicity to Eurotrib.com as in http://www.eurotrib.com/user/Frank%20Schnittger/diary.

Still, on balance, I think I will replace http://www.eurotrib.com/user/Frank%20Schnittger/diary in my e-mail signature with http://tinyurl.com/FrankSchnittger for the time being.

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 12:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please test tinyurl above to make sure it doesn't just work with my browser settings, cookies, add-ons etc.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 12:25:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Took me straight to your user page, so no problems.

(Running Firefox with the ET-extensions on XP.)

by ATinNM on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 02:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 03:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Works for me (vanilla Opera 9.5) I've never had any problems with tinyurl on any browser, and I've used it with both Firefox, Opera and the old version of Internet exploder, so it should check out - but it's true that it doesn't do any good for www.eurotrib.com

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 05:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 05:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some Internet-savy users will not click on a tinyurl address, because since the original is masked, you have no idea where it's going to take you. Only use them if an address (url) is so long that it may be broken by a new line character. Nothing more elaborate.
by balbuz on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 04:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.  I'm not worried about the internet savvy users because they can find their way to and around Eurotrib without a problem.  My concern is about a lot of beginner WWW users who have just about gotten as far as e-mail and an internet search and who can't fix a faulty URL (as in this case a . was missing) or find their way around Eurotrib as an unregistered user.  I think those who are used to the Eurotrib format underestimate how intimidating it is for non-savvy web users - in format, never mind the content.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 04:48:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... a web address that includes your user name, to avoid having spaces in your user name. That percent20 gets people all the time.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 07:08:27 PM EST
Like the British tabloids use to increase circulation...
by Magnifico on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 11:29:19 PM EST
You mean we need more doomporn?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 11:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe is Doomed
by Magnifico on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 12:45:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Brilliant.  How did Bush manage to turn the world around so that the asteroid hits France rather than the USA?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:34:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's far from certain that the thing in the picture would hit France. Taking the rotation of the Earth into account, I'd guess that it'd hit the Atlantic... Of course, if you're being hit by a chunck of rock the size of a small continent, it doesn't really much matter where it lands...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 06:13:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... it looks like its already heading to the middle of the Atlantic, so including rotation of the earth, obviously heading to Washington DC.

All George W did was order a camera angle from the satellite that made it look like it was heading to France. Camera angles, that he understands. Trajectories and which direction the earth orbits, not so much.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 08:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're applying logic to the Europe is Doomed™ argument.

Stylistically though, if I used a picture up of east Asia and a asteroid about to hit, then many casual observers would wonder why Europe is Doomed™ when there's a picture of China there?

by Magnifico on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 12:10:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A picture of East Asia or North America would've jibed with the Europe. Is. DoomedTM meme, but then it would've been too much of an inside joke.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 10:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Should be used in each Europe is Doomed™ diary.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 08:41:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Superb. :)
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 09:42:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greatest. ET. Pic. EVER!

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 10:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how do we get users to comment to whom English is a second language. I find that this hurdle is quite big for many of my friend, even if they use English for work.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 03:56:51 PM EST
There seems to be a semsitivity to using imperfect English in France/Germany that simply isn't a problem for English speakers.  We're not afraid to try our limited or mangled French/German and let the unfortunate recipient try to make sense of it.

So one solution is to make an explicit statement in the new user guide that perfect or even good English is not required.  We will try and make sense of what people are saying and respond empathetically.

The other solution is the Tribext- machine translation engine - its a good first cut approximation and usually fully understandable if not quite as nuanced as it could be.

A third solution is simply to encourage comments in other languages.  The problem here is that they may be very few e.g. German speakers on line at any point in time to carry on a conversation.

Even Timesonline's Charles' Bremner encourages comments in French - and that is an issue we have to address in the context of the development of the ET community in any case.

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Moze powinne zaczac komentowac po polsku. Jestem pewny ze wszyscy mnie zrozumieja. Wyscie wszyscy uczyli sie polskiego w szkole - to przeciez bardzo pozyteczny jezyk. No, moze to nie jest az tak dobry pomysl. Zastanowie sie.
by MarekNYC on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:13:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or, as Google puts it
Maybe powinne start komentowac in English. I am sure with
All zrozumieja me. Wyscie all teach the Polish August
at school - it is very pozyteczny language. No, it can
and so is not a good idea. Zastanowie August.
Aren't computers wonderful?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Umph, you were faster.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
August? (sie, or rather się, I'm too lazy to use diacriticals, is the reflexive pronoun, August is 'Sierpień')
by MarekNYC on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What ever it might mean, it does look good. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:20:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Moze powinne zaczac komentowac po polsku. Jestem pewny ze wszyscy mnie zrozumieja. Wyscie wszyscy uczyli sie polskiego w szkole - to przeciez bardzo pozyteczny jezyk. No, moze to nie jest az tak dobry pomysl. Zastanowie sie. Maybe powinne start komentowac in English. I am sure that all zrozumieja me. Wyscie teach all of August in the Polish school - it is very pozyteczny language. No, it can not be a good idea and so. Zastanowie August.

Hmmm, either the translator is not very good in Polish, the original text is full of orthographical mistakes, or without a human reading it, those translations really aren't very useful.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actual translation:

Maybe I should start commenting in Polish. I'm sure everyone will understand me. You all studied Polish in school - after all, it's a very useful language. Hmmh, maybe it's not such a good idea. I'll think about it.

by MarekNYC on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like the way that Polish got translated as English. I think it uses some sort of statistical analysis, so that a reference to Polish in Polish corresponds to a reference to English in English.

The classical example of this, now fixed, was the translation of Sarkozy (French) into Blair (English).

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What? Why? It's a perfectly accurate translation :-P

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmm, either the translator is not very good in Polish, the original text is full of orthographical mistakes

I would say that the lack of diacritical marks was an issue except it seems to do fine with some words. Take the first sentence: everything except the last two words has marks. 'Zaczac' even has two and it got it right. And translating 'No' as no is pretty strange, as is 'uczyli sie' as 'teach all of August'.

Or in other words the translation program sucks.

by MarekNYC on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 07:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It does quite okay for French, English and Spanish, if I remember correctly. Italian too, maybe? German is okay for the most part, but it deals poorly with compound nouns.

I did the test a while back, translating some random bits from newspapers. One can for the most part understand what is written, and easily improve it to standard English. The program seems to get worse for other languages. With Swedish, for example, one may as well not bother...

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but my friends are already aware of it, and it just does not seem enough.

You know if you look reately at the sitemeter map, there should be actually quite a few people from the German speaking area, but very few of them are commenting. And I don't think answers have to be posted instantaneoudly. Some people comment in older diaries and keep that discussion alive.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 04:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well - the development f a truly multi-lingual ET is on the agenda for Paris...

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 07:15:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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