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But even if you take work hours, it's unclear at best that you get a meaningful statement, because this assumes that coal, steel, rubber and all the other little things that go into making stuff exists in infinite supply, if only we put enough man-hours into extracting them.

That's empty-world economics, and while that might have been fine for the 19th century and adequate for the 20th, we're living in an age where full-world economics is needed.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 12:25:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We desperately need these "full-world" economics - or full-accounting economics - or holistic economics (we need a good name too...) in order to show that a lot of current discourse on growth and propserity is nothing but.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 12:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Life-cycle economics.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 03:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... in the macroeconomic labor productivity, the ease or difficulty of getting more goods and services is whatever it is. Its easier to achieve labor productivity gains if the empty world assumptions are closer to being correct, and harder to achieve labor productivity gains if the full world assumptions are closer to being correct, but at the macro level, what it is is what it is.

Where the empty world assumptions comes around to bite the traditional marginalist economist on the buttocks is in dipping down into the conventional marginalist micro-economist to provide an underlying model of how hard or easy it is to achieve labor productivity gains. This activity goes under the heading of "putting the macroeconomic model on microeconomic foundations".

Even there, it is possible to assume absolute caps on material inputs, however it is analytically inconvenient, and the convention in traditional marginalist economics is to only assume analytically inconvenient things if absolutely necessary for the specific analytical problem at hand. Therefore the tacit presumption that there is an additional amount of material inputs available "at some price" is almost universally made, whenever the traditional marginalist economist is not explicitly considering a problem involving a resource limit.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 02:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes,
and I did think about it while writing my comment.

Thinking of efficiency (output/input) in ecological terms, I would say it is fairly easy to estimate by looking at what is not output, that is waste. And our modern societies produce a lot which ends up as waste. Problably a world record in low ecological efficiency. The most ecologically efficient human societies would be those that has little or no waste, that is the societies we see as backwards and poor.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 05:36:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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