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The last time I accidentally had something with butter in it I was horribly sick 30 minutes later and spent the whole night unable to sleep with excruciating stomach ache. I still felt ill 2 days later. It isn't worth it at all.  I never knowingly let myself consume anything containing lactose and I am prepared to be a pain in the arse to ensure that when I order food, it is safe to eat.

I like to be well and there is nothing worse than getting ill when travelling, especially when there is so much to see and do.  I don't see cutting out 'nice' things in my diet as depriving myself but rather safeguarding my health and getting more out of life as a result.

When I was younger and didn't know what caused the problem I also learned to live with it and got used to that baseline of never quite feeling well and always having stomach ache and headaches and being tired. But now I know what it is like to feel properly well and healthy, I like to stay that way. My choice.

my lactose intolerance arise because I do not make any of the enzyme that breaks down lactose (and never have) and when it is in my system it has long term systemic effects and I've seen this contribute to early deaths and chronic illnesses of a number of family members. It won't happen to me.  

As it happens, more adults are intolerant to lactose to some extent, than are tolerant to it but it is largely ignored or written off as IBS.  Wheat I have a greater tolerance to and will eat if I don't have much other choice and the worst effect is bloating and lethargy which is tolerable. I just feel more comfortable and clear headed without.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 11:52:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not simply most adults who are lactose intolerant, but the vast majority (I think around 70-80%) of them. Since the main exception are people of European origin, lactose intolerance tends to be regarded as an abnormality rather than as the norm.

I didn't know that lactose intolerance could have such serious long-term effects. Are you sure that you don't have milk allergy, a rather different condition?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope definitely not a milk allergy, I was tested for that. No reaction whatsoever. I can eat stuff with milk protein in no problem.

The symptom list for lactose includes:
nosebleeds
headaches/migraines
joint and muscle pain
spasms
palpitations
IBS type symptoms - bloating, nausea, diarrhea
lethargy
poor immune system

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those are a lot like the symptoms for gluten intolerance. I'm not lactose intolerant, but gluten--yikes.
by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's something I'm curious about.

Is lactose intolerance primarily an allergy to cow's milk ? As melo points out, we're not supposed to drink that at all. Or is it an allergy to all milks such as, say, goats milk which is supposedly okay for humans.

That said, I'm okay. I can eat more or less anything. Anything I avoid is by preference or disgust (especially oysters)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're not "supposed" to brew beer either.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shocked into silence.... ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if the licencing authorities catch you. And technically it's the yeast wot done it anyway.

And yes, we're all slightly intolerant of alcohol. Being sick from drinking too much as a youngster is because the stomach doesn't want that much alcohol in it at once, stopping being sick is a "learned" reaction.

But drinking booze is pretty much elective these days.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've heard of people being old to stop breastfeeding and put their kids on special formula because the kids were lactose intolerant. Don't know what that is about ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"being told"
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a good question about cow's milk.  A person can't be intolerant (which I understand now means "lacking the enzyme required to break it down") to all milk, since most humans survive off human milk for the first months of their lives.  Is there no lactose in breast milk?  And how did we come to be drinking cow's milk?  


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dogs can handle cow's milk when they're puppies, but after that most just vomit it back up - Figgy will drink low-fat milk, Cleo won't touch it. If Figgy accidentially drinks full-fat he makes a mess.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:11:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My cat drinks cow's milk (skim, in tiny amounts).  Doesn't seem to be a problem.  Unless I refuse it to her.  Then there's a problem.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hmm, a visitor left a litre of milk in my fridge, so rather than throw it away, i poured it over my dogs' food.

one did fine, but the other was sick for a week.

lost appetite, moped around, no energy.

gave her some kidney tincture, encouraged her to drink more water, and with extra affection and massage, she came around fine, as per.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have always been intolerant, I projectile vomited all forms of milk given to me as a baby - breast milk, formular, cows milk etc. It almost killed me.  It was only when I started on pureeed food that I was ok.

I have a genetic defect that prevents the enzyme being made, ever.  Most people make lactase that breaks down lactose when they are babies and this eases off as they grow older - hence why adults are more likely to be lactose intolerant.  As pointed out elsewhere, we aren't 'supposed' to have milk in our diets once weaned off breastfeeding therefore no need to keep making the enzyme.

How did we come to be eating or drinking anything that we do?!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lactose tolerance in adults is a rather recent genetic mutation. Evolution in action !

My guess is that some herdsmen discovered they could give raw milk without making cheese out of it to toddlers, and stopped giving it as the kids developed intolerance - until at a point the kids didn't develop intolerance, and gained an evolutionary advantage.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 04:12:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Evolution in action !

Funnier yet: most probably co-evolution.

So, in societies where milk was really the only thing available during some periods, being lactose intolerant was strongly selected against (like: you might die).

by t-------------- on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 11:56:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Most babies have no problem with lactose. It's something most people develop later, and seems to due to be some combination of genetics and environment. I presume that lactose intolerent people can't handle goat milk either (but maybe the amount of lactose is different?). The same probably also applies to giraffe milk, despite the recent decision that it is kosher.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good grief!  If cow's milk is meant to speed up the growing process for cows, what is giraffe milk capable of?!  


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:12:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It isn't an allergy. The lactose cannot be broken down without the enzyme therefore it cannot be digested properly and so it loiters and causes grief, most commonly in the form of bloating, gassiness etc but more severe than that in some people.

It is the lactose in the milk that is specific to the problem and lactose is present in all mammal milk including goat etc.  The reason goats milk is thought to be ok for some people who can't have cow's milk is because these people are allergic to cows milk protein, which is not present in goats milk.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe there is something to the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" after all.  Maybe the French are not wimpy, they all just have a bellyache from too much bread and cheese.  Probably why they have national healthcare.  Entire country doesn't feel too good.  Epidemic.  If you really think about it, look at the kind of culture a diet with staples of lactose and grain engenders.  People cannot work more than 30 hours a week.  They need "siestas" in the middle of their day to lie down for a bit.  Always having to lie down, these people.  They drink a lot of wine, probably to numb the pain of a poor diet.  I bet gathering in parks and plazas is some left-over tradition from the middle ages where they quarantined everyone who had a belly ache, convinced they were possessed by the devil.  They do lots of painting, poetry-writing, philosophising, and other things to pass the time while in bed with a tummy ache.  Ack! They're a miserable lot!  Someone should tell them to stop eating bread and cheese.  Then they'd be happy and full of life, finally!

(If milk or bread gives you a bellyache, I don't think you should drink it.  I don't want anyone here feeling sick.  I'm a nice person.  I just like making fun of making fun of the French!)


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why are you picking on the French? This would also apply to the Greeks, who eat more cheese, per capita, than the French...
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was making fun of people who pick on the French.  But yes, the Greeks too.  And Swiss, Italians, all those cheese-eating Europeans.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Finland, gluten or lactose content has to be marked on all food, including pre-packed sandwiches. You can find this info on most restaurant menus also. However, that doesn't mean a good choice of gluten/lactose-free alternatives.

Most supermarkets DO have a good range of stuff in special shelf sections.

I presume all this reflects the high rate of such allergies in the Finnish population.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:39:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Supermarkets here also have a good range of 'free-from' foods but it varies in terms of whether things are labelled or not. Lactose often not although gluten and wheat are.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lactose intolerance has a very high incidence in Finland. Apparently that is quite common in formerly (and recently) hunter-gatherer boreal societies.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think there is a law regarding labelling (though I'm sure it is being lobbies for) but most grocery stores in the States have special sections for lactose and gluten-free food.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I'm finding in the States is that, while the number of food packages labeled "gluten-free" increases, my confidence in their accuracy decreases.

I suspect that the food manufacturers say, "OK, if we make it without wheat then it's gluten-free." Which is not the case. I've seen things so labeled that contained oats and/or barley, which are every bit as dangerous as wheat.

And it's astonishing how many people don't make the connection between flour in a food item and the fact that it's made of wheat. The good side is that restaurants chefs and servers almost always are helpful, understanding and will go out of their way to prepare something in an uncontaminated pan.

by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was younger and didn't know what caused the problem I also learned to live with it and got used to that baseline of never quite feeling well and always having stomach ache and headaches and being tired.

isn't it wonderful to find you don't have to live like that any more?

waking up in hospital with plastic tubes meeting above my eyes, trying to concentrate in school with cluster headaches, stomach feeling like it was breaking rocks...

raised three kids their first years vegetarian, they got to keep their appendixes, tonsils, adenoids.

the fat molecules in dairy are built to support a calf's rapid growth, not a human's gradual one, ergo lymph solidification, bloating.

the fact that it's better for the planet too makes it a no-brainer...

i feel so bad for all the kids with lactose intolerance that will have to wait till they are 18 or so to know what 'well-being' really is, as i did.

so, well done for speaking up, in wales, and for having the discipline to take good care of yourself. good luck while travelling!

i'd carry some miso with you, for the morning after, if you have to go a bit off your usual diet. a tsp in some hot water can turn things round again better than anything else i know.

hard to pull off on the road, but here's melo's surefire cure for what ails ya

a cup of freshly boiled water
1 tsp barley or rice miso
1 small leaf dried wakame sea vegetable, or a good pinch of kelp powder
1 tsp brewers' yeast
1 tsp minced parsley
1 tsp lemon juice
2-3 drops umeboshi vinegar
2 drops tabasco
2 tbs cooked brown rice

drink deep, and be weller!

 for travelling, i usually get individual sachets of dried miso, which do the trick.

for you who get occasional stress headaches, i recommend picking up some CEPHYL aspirin, available unfortunately only in france and switzerland, afaik. they really are amazing.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Melo, I must confess to being one of those awful omnivores. But only slow food and quite Montignacist (low GI). I avoid anything with e-numbers (apart from a very occasional icecream), No synthetics, including most medicines. No antibiotics either unless doctor says I will die otherwise.

Any interesting products of Mother Nature are welcomed - being one myself.

I am a sinner, but one with 5000 years of testing to back me up ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:52:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hey sven, moves into food bore blogmode,

i'd love to be an omnivore, and i'd even more love not to be misunderstood when i talk about diet!

being an omnivore is a sign of great health, that's what we're set up to be.

diet is also a palliative, once one finds out one's imbalances and which foods heal them.

in my case diet is a wonderful release from a suffering past, so i know i'm luckier than if i had remained ignorant about the subject, but i'd be even luckier still, were i so healthy as to be able to return to omniverousness.

it's horrible having limits that most others can't relate to, but i make lemonade, and have fun doing it.

anything's better than going back to hell, as in wales so aptly describes the grungy feeling of trying to live on what doesn't agree with you.

my diet is a stretched out band-aid over a difficult series of ptsd memories, and lord love us, it works!

everybody's mileage will vary according to the individual biology, psychological architecture and environment.

deep down i have a hunch one day i will find another healing that might restore me to the sovereign state of omnivority, lol.

or to living on the prana in air maybe... this is not so far fetched, as already i am amazed how little quantity my body needs compared to before i understood which were 'superfoods', so high in curative and nutritive values that quality could easily replace much quantity.

food is fascinating...the roots of our choices go so very deep, changing radically was neither an easy nor attractive option, until i learned to make it so, silk purse from sow's ear, if you will.

i love it when people are healthy and happy with how they eat. this, however, is not very common, and on the good side, people are becoming ever more open to new choices, which i find a pleasure to encourage, hoping always that there may be a similarly profound change in one's ability to better self-regulate one's own health, that i had.

for example, my partner has had an 80% reduction in pollen allergy, since becoming vegetarian. she could probably knock out the last 20% if she liked saunas more.

 :)

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sauna - oh yes. I've been working on revising the marketing strategy of a large Finnish manufacturer of stoves, steam and cabins etc for export - and in the process learned a great deal about the health benefits.

The benefits exist only with sufficient heat (<65 C), and the vapourization of water on the stones to increase humidity rapidly. Steam baths and saunas both use steam for healing, but in the sauna the steam is invisible. The temperature is needed to get deep into the muscles, and to stimulate surface blood vessels which then clear the skin of crap.

I usually go for about 80 C, but spray some water around on the walls and benches before I sit down, so the heat is not so dry and the sweat starts straight away. I often put birch oil in the water for added aromatherapy ;-)

Saunas are also intended to be quite dark.

Most people outside of Finland do not know how to use the sauna or 'soorna', as they call it. Harrumph. I heard all the horror tales abut 40 C hotel saunas with a notice saying do NOT throw water on the stones!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you Finns do the thing where you beat one another with birch twigs?  There are great saunas here, but I miss the flogging.  I just don't see that flying around here.  Assault charges would be brought.  It's a shame.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is nothing like flogging ;-) The young leafy birch branches are tied together, so that the part that contacts the body is only soft leaves. The action is more heavy flicking ie you go to beat yourself on the back but a few centimetres before contact you arrest the motion of your hand so the leaves flick forward. It take a bit of practice.

The 'vihta' is kept in water. Before you flick yourself with it, you place it briefly on the hot stones to create more steam and heat up the leaves.

The possible painful part is that the swish of the vihta creates a waft of very hot air in it's wake. That hot air never reaches you, but it can reach a neighbour. Sauna etiquette thus demands that you take this into account.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 06:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The most common translation of Vihta is 'whisk'. Not a threatening weapon I would have thought.

Neither is nudity threatening. As I said the sauna should be dim. Running to the lake is a different matter. Rarely are saunas unisex, except in families. But often men and women in a group take turns in the sauna, and relax outside when it is not their turn. This means the trip to the lake is visible to the relaxers. Men tend to run naked to the lake. Women tend to take a towel which they discard at the jetty. When men return from the cold lake after a swim, there's very little to see ;-)

It's all done in the very best of taste ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 06:45:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've obviously never been thwacked in a banya by a Russian babushka! ;)

No, I love it.  You don't need to educate me on it.  I was just wondering if the Finns did that too.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 11:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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