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Which is why it is an interesting debate because the 'natural' and 'social' really aren't possible to separate out completely. But to what extent do they overlap (and how) and what is the impact of that?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:05:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it doesn't make the debate interesting, it makes it specious as it is not either-or.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:06:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My subjective opinion is that it is an interesting debate.  I'm not just discussing this in the context of gender roles but more widely.  

How much of how we behave, live, work and so on is defined by social norms and expectations and upbringing and how much is driven by say genetics or personality?  It is an interesting debate to have because depending on whether you believe the 'natural' (whatever that is) or the 'social' is more influential then your view on how to tackle social problems will vary.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
whether you believe the 'natural' (whatever that is) or the 'social' is more influential

And it is not whether - or, is the point.


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:26:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I'm the only person here who can remotely comment on that. and I think this thread is full enough as it is.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:46:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll seed a diary on it if you like?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually it kinda feeds into some thoughts I was having about a diary I need to write. Give me a day and if I haven't posted anything, remind me. Probably later this pm tho'.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
heh, you always say how no-one's around, when they come out the woodwork, it's too much.

my new kitty says hi, btw!

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:20:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It has been a inteersting discussion, but once ET starts going to thin columns and then double-width pages, conversations become very difficult to follow.

Plus the page refresh takes ages.

I tend to duck out at that point.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:39:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You could try setting your comment preferences to minimal or dynamic minimal after a certain number of comments.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:53:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, now it's my turn...

get a catmac!

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 10:12:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Congrats on getting the cat. long overdue.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:54:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
say wha?

are the only debates that interest you reducible to binary terms?

funny, i find that's exactly what makes these types of discussion so fascinating, and they generate so many comments, too.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:19:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The categories are undefined and probably undefinable, and the debate is stated in binary terms (nature vs nurture) not by me.

So, yes, I don't find it interesting but not for the reasons you imagine.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:28:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i have a vivid imagination, but not that vivid!

it is now clearer to me why you find it uninteresting.

perhaps because you don't anticipate any novel viewpoints to emerge here?

luckily it is interesting some of us... a hoary argument for sure, but it's the journey, not the arrival.

meaning we may never know, but the conversations it enables are revealing, because it's obviously something many great minds have bent to understand, and some here have reflected quite deeply thereupon, to judge by the interest and comments.

horses for courses...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 10:20:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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