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The Palins provide a poster case for the failure of Abstinence-only sex education to prevent unplanned teenage pregnancy.

Well, but they don't provide a poster case for the negative consequences on live quality an unplanned baby can have.

And now you are using the girl, Bristol Palin, not Sarah Palin, for a political purpose. You portray a major decision of her live as a failing. Whatever you think about this case being poster case for whatever, this is simply bad style. Sure, what you are doing may be common, on, uhmm, fox news... Nothing else I'm saying. Is that the way politics is discussed in Spain or UK? Would be disappointed to hear that.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 10:58:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An unplanned pregnancy cannot be a major decision.

I didn't say anything negative about the decision to carry the pregnancy to term.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:00:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
She has made a lot of decisions.
She made the decision to have sex, even when, as you seem to imply, abstinance was her major strategy to not get pregnant.
She made the decision, not to abort, probably pretty consistent with her views, however, some people might have chosen to do something else.
She will make the decision not to give her daughter free for adoption (Steve Jobs, e.g. was adopted right away of the bed where he was born).


Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:12:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
She made the decision to have sex, even when, as you seem to imply, abstinance was her major strategy to not get pregnant.

No, abstinence is the strategy advocated by her mother.

Which is the strategy being criticised here.

You could claim that the daughter is just a rebellious teenager and the mother's strategy is still the best, if you really wanted.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:14:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't say anything negative about the decision to carry the pregnancy to term.
No, but you use this girl to portray what you see as failing. Recently I read Helmuth Kohl's sons were insulted or even beaten up in school by other children, because of political decisions, made by their father.

The abuse of family members, especially of children, of political opponents for political gain is something, which I condemn. And it is not something which is excusable by say people from the other party are doing this, too.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's pretty hard to criticize education policies without considering the effects they have on children. At one point, you have to say, "look, this policy has this effect on children, as exemplified by this and that case".

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And you can't use anonymised examples, such as "I have met a girl...", "Statistically teenage pregnancies in this milieu/region...", "In other countries with a more extensive sexual education..."

No, you have to pick one explicit, underaged girl, who is not asked, if she wants to be picked by you as an example.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anonymised examples don't exist in the US press. Nor even in US Law where laws are often named after kids.

Also, it is the mother who is being criticised, showing her methods didn't produce what she's claiming to achieve ; I don't give a damn about her daughter, beyond wishing her happiness. I hope she was informed enough about the consequences of sex. And that the shotgun wedding isn't due to her mother's decision to run for VP.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:42:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anonymised examples don't exist in the US press. Nor even in US Law where laws are often named after kids.

Frankly, I think this insane. Maybe they do it for easier fact checking possibilities, but it is insane.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:52:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It happens because the politicians use prominent media cases of missing blonde girls to push legislation through.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 11:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with that one.

Another point : I think it makes Palin look even worse, that she accepted McCain's proposition, knowing the kind of scrutiny it would put on her family, and what it would do to her kid daughter.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 12:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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