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Buffett's time bomb goes off on Wall Street | U.S. | Reuters

But credit default swaps -- complex derivatives originally designed to protect banks from deadbeat borrowers -- are adding to the turmoil.

"This was supposedly a way to hedge risk," says Ellen Brown, the author of the book "Web of Debt."

"I'm sure their predictive models were right as far as the risk of the things they were insuring against. But what they didn't factor in was the risk that the sellers of this protection wouldn't pay ... That's what we're seeing now."

Brown is hardly alone in her criticism of the derivatives. Five years ago, billionaire investor Warren Buffett called them a "time bomb" and "financial weapons of mass destruction" and directed the insurance arm of his Berkshire Hathaway Inc (BRKa.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) to exit the business.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 01:58:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I fully concur.
I was interviewing people some time ago about CDS for a project in which I am a consultant. We had a "no-understanding" moment when I tried to ask about how the risk profile of the CDS originator was priced.

They explained that there was a market for CDS indeed but that it's the risk of the counterpart that is priced (in case I hadn't got that).
After I reworded they saw that I had got that. And they admitted that, indeed, some CDS had become worthless because the originator had defaulted. But apparently that was never taken into account in the pricing.

Look, I had at that time only 6 months of working experience in a banking environment, the first 4 of which being on HR projects. And it did not even take me a couple of seconds to see the problem. I can only see two possibilities:
-People involved in those markets saw the problem and deliberately pretended it wasn't there (they sure didn't make much noise about it).
-To work in derivatives, there is a requirement that, even though you must be mathematically proficient, you must be terminally stupid and unable to understand any of the figures you process.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 05:21:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there is a bit of both:

  • Certainly as Jerome notes, many people knew there were problems and turned a blind eye. The head of Citigroup was quoted saying "while the music is playing, we'll keep dancing"...

  • I've observed amongst the quants I've known that many times they are systematically excluded from understanding the connection between the systems they create and the "market realities" involved. In part this is an issue of IP, the people in charge don't want the quants to understand too much of the model, in case they go work for someone else. But I also believe in part it's because they want to restrict the labour power of the quants they employ too.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 05:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That, and, at least in France, it is not unheard for Mathematicians to have a weak grasp of the realities they model, already in Physics. No reason why it'd be different in Finance, where the "realities" are even further from common sense.

In my experience, the computer programmers were often barely aware of such concepts as "what's a CDS"...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 23rd, 2008 at 09:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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