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The Dow's back in negative territory after being up almost 200 at one point.

And Alitalia is failing now?  Sure would be nice if we could just let our idiot airlines fail and bring the European ones in to do it properly.

Anyway, so I've stated probably about twenty thousand times in the last few years that the idea of economists being a group of libertarian and conservative looney toons was a load of shit, pointing out that guys like Krugman and Stiglitz were more representative of the field (being its two biggest guns) than the Kudlows and Cramers of the world.  Still, the straw men are lined up.

A new poll backs me up.  Economists -- real ones, not the DC smut-peddlers and industry hacks on CNBC and in the WSJ -- favor Obama over McCain by a Yurpian-like margin, 59% to 31%.

I'm shocked.  Shocked, I tell you.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:11:55 PM EST
And I've pointed out loads of times that few of that 51% have the guts to go public about their beliefs.

And it remains true.

And while it remains true, they're failing all of us. They have the knowledge to call some of these snake oil policies for what they are. And they don't. So, all that economic hardship coming down the line for all of us. They're partly responsible.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You'll get no disagreement from me on that, although appearances on television don't get you tenure, and it's a lot easier for established figures like Krugman and Stiglitz to do so.

I'd point out, too, that you could level the same criticism, albeit not to the same degree, at climate scientists here.  And the economists are at least active in the blogosphere in a more public way.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:27:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely true about the climate scientists, but the voodoo economists have been pissing me off for longer... ;-)
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Try being taught by them in the intro classes.  Then we'll talk about who can claim to get pissed at them properly. ;)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Metatone:
And I've pointed out loads of times that few of that 51% have the guts to go public about their beliefs.

I'd almost agree, but I suspect most of them don't understand PR or the media, so if they wanted to go public they wouldn't know how.

The Randroids and looney-toons Chicago vampires not only understand PR, they've had generous funding to help them get the evangelical message out.

Which means that when journos go looking for comments from economic experts, the moderates aren't at the top of their contacts list.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Dow opened up 200.  Apparently some found some bargains at yesterday's close.  Bear trap! Bear trap! Bear trap!?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh FUCK!  Not quite 1 P.M. EST and DOWn over 100.

Bail!  Bail!

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was talking to an academic economist from a name brand university on a DC to NYC bus a couple weeks ago. After mentioning that I'd been campaign volunteering, he cautiously asked for who, and literally breathed a sigh of relief when I said Obama. I noted that econ departments are one of the few academic areas where you can find Republicans. He agreed, and said that the problem with the past seven years is that it has made social interaction more difficult. Before Bush his view was that you could be both a decent person and intelligent while being a Republican, just wrong. Now it's either one or the other. Still, in the interest of conflict avoidance he tries to avoid political topics with them and stay polite when it comes up. His wife takes a different approach which has apparently caused some interesting moments at parties.
by MarekNYC on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've met and/or read Republican and libertarian economists I've had respect for.  (Tyler Cowen of George Mason is one.)  Most of them are probably not supporting McCain, though.  The biggest problem is that the wackos take over a few departments.

Auburn is a big one, but you can even find some in the Ivy League.

As I've said, a few of the Auburn types polluted Florida State -- again, the intro classes were just hideous (nothing but Republican Supply-Sider propaganda) -- but the upper-level stuff was controlled by a pretty good lot.

As far as the differing schools of thought, the Berkeleys and Princetons and Columbias are much greater in number than the Auburns, thankfully.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Auburn Philosophy department is chock-a-block with Randroids; a veritable hotspot of 2nd and 3rd rate minds.  
by ATinNM on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Dow surges on news that Paulson is going to backstop the entire financial sector"

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And that means WHAT exactly?  How soon can we in the US expect     HYPERINFLATION   ?!!!

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
see here.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:03:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

... would allow banks to shovel bad debt off their balance sheets and send them back to business as usual.

there is something VERY WRONG here!

"So your house almost completely burned down because of all of those oily rags in your garage?  Well, the fire dept. put the blaze out, so go back to business as usual."   What?  !!!!

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as that means people don't get foreclosed on their houses...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:19:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can I haz optimismz?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Surely you mean that as snark?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, but HYPERVENTILATION has started already.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as I can buy 10 lbs (4-5 kilos for you Eurofolks) of potatoes for $5 American, hyper hasn't hit yet.  Wait until the grocery store is boarded up ... HELLO!

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perfect.  They're going to socialize the entire mess.

Maybe Grandpa Keating can bring his buddy Keating back for an encore.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great comment from a reader at the WaPo:

Is anyone other than me feeling really good about the economy today? I mean, here I was yesterday struggling to make my next mortgage payment, and now I'm the part-owner of the largest insurance company in the US...and rumors that I may even become a part owner of a few banks next week.

As they say, only in America. Now I understand what the Republicans mean when they talk about "trickle down."

Indeed.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well what with each American giving the banking industry $1000, I'd say it puts you all in a considerably different position, the next time the bank manager calls you in to discuss the fact that your account is overdrawn.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True.  "I'll pay the credit card when I frakking feel like it, assholes.  You owe me more than I owe you."

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And, for that matter, the "Ownership Society"
by Zwackus on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or "Pwn3rship Society," as Mig has called it.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I copied that from the comments to a blog post somewhere else.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn it, Mig.  I can't remember what I was doing ten minutes ago, and you want me to remember that? ;)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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