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Dodo your text seems to be pretty accurate. I don't know much about Slovenian politic nowadays but I see pretty much same names there like say 18 years ago...But this phenomenon is everywhere in ex YU republics.
Yes Slovenians had always been "different" from the rest of us. Even during communism. Probably because of their close proximity to Germany/Austria/West Europe. In practice they were much more pro-west, pro private then all of others. And yes they were industrialized (especially having in mind how small actually the state is in every sense.
Milosevic never actually had a war with them. What ever of the "war" took place was just to buy time to take as much of JNA (Yugoslav Army) and equipment out of Slovenia. So there is no that much bitterness between them and Serbs from that war. But...we never actually felt that close ever. We can hardly understand their language (I can better understand Poles or Checks, not to mention Bulgarians...).Then our history was really different too. We have suffered under Ottomans and they prospered under Austria (at least economically).We used to call them "German's hostlers" and they called us Serbs "Pig traders". We were distant but I don't think that ever was hatred between us (like it was between us and Croats).
You are right about their nationalism. It is and always was strong there. I even think that some doze of nationalism is healthy for the nation but their is malignant.
As for economy it seems that they are doing well. I even see that people from Serbia now go to work there. Even before the war there was pretty good amount of Bosnians working and living there. They obviously need immigrants (small population and economy is growing) but they are not willing to give them rights that they should.
Corruption was endemic during communism (and Slovenia did not escape it) and it's not going to go anywhere. Especially having in mind that what we see nowadays in Western Europe does not look that ideal as we thought it is in this field.
And yes Slovenians opened first shopping malls in Belgrade long time ago. And even after war (and Milosevic called on boycott for Slovenian goods) they managed to work and sell in Belgrade. I was surprised to learn that now one of the Serbian richest businessman (or better say mafia member) is building huge shopping mall in Slovenia. Some things changed...
by vbo on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 10:54:23 AM EST
they prospered under Austria (at least economically). We used to call them "German's hostlers" and they called us Serbs "Pig traders".

How nice...

That prospering wasn't that droll until the nationalisation of the wealth of German-speakers in Yugoslavia and its predecessors, though. There was a big peasant rebellion in 1515 (one year after a similar one in Hungary). Before Tito's partisans were executing collaborators in Slovenia, during WWII, though nowhere as bad as what Serbia (not to mention Poland)suffered, Slovenians also got a taste of what the Nazis intended for Slavs after the planned finishing-off of the Jews and Gypsies resp. defeating the Soviet Union, see for example the kidnapping and Germanisation of the children of partisans.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 11:38:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for this educational diary DoDo - I am ashamed to admit I knew almost nothing about Slovenia, except where it was. I did a basic country wiki check when the Patria arms case came up in Finnish media - but now I know more. Danke.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 12:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How nice...

Hahaha...you have to understand that it is our sense of humor...a little bit black tho...

There was a big peasant rebellion in 1515 (one year after a similar one in Hungary)

I know, I know...it wasn't that much funny for them but comparing with what we had to endure under Ottomans...

Slovenians also got a taste of what the Nazis intended for Slavs after the planned finishing-off of the Jews and Gypsies resp. defeating the Soviet Union,  

Yes, I know...Slovenians used to run to Serbia for the shelter at some point...
nationalisation of the wealth of German-speakers in Yugoslavia and its predecessors,

I know that Tito nationalized ( grubbed) wealth and properties of German-speakers after WWII and drove away and killed them calling them "kulaks"(rich people), all though he did not spear any of us Slavs in this matter but I have heard recently that after WWI our king did not do anything like that. All though I am not sure...
by vbo on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 08:17:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what we had to endure under Ottomans...

What "we" endured under the Ottomans is in part latter-day myth on top of historical facts. For example, I read a few years ago a historians' article on Ottoman military campaigns in Hungary, where they explained that contrary to general assumption, the majority of those armies weren't Turks: most were recruited (as regular army or mercenaries) near the border, that is they were Bosniaks, Serbs and Bulgarians, and not even all Muslims. This while at the same time, a lot of Serbs fled the Ottomans into what was the Kingdom of Hungary, most to Vojvodina but some going as far North as Szentendre, North of Budapest.

So there have always been people arranging themselves with the powers-that-be and those for whom the new rulers were mortal danger, and after the successful establishment of a nation state, later national mythology will always conserve only part of the whole picture.

all though he did not spear any of us Slavs in this matter

I don't know; but that he had prisoners of war executed after the final vitory (and not just Ustashi but regular soldiers) would not put it far from him.

but I have heard recently that after WWI our king did not do anything like that. All though I am not sure...

Things happened before the establishment of central authority, though central authority itself may have supported it. At the end of WWII, every force was trying to 'create facts' and grab as much territory as possible. What is now Slovenia was a flashpoint for this: the area called Lower Styria, including Maribor, was majority-German by all accounts, but Slovenian forces managed to take over. Maribor was heavily de-Germanised afterwards, most inhabitants were 'persuased' to go North. (Not that the Austrians were any better with the Slovenian minority during WWI.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 02:26:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the end of WWII, every force was trying to 'create facts' and grab as much territory as possible.

Uhm I meant, At the end of WWI, every force was trying to 'create facts on the ground' and grab as much territory as possible.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 22nd, 2008 at 04:49:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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