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I'm not sure I follow.

You are going with the assumption that Treasury would take over those banks, eventually. But I assume banks don't really want to be taken over, and that based on past performance and lack of changed rules, they can avert it: they can become profitable again on paper with another bubble to the extent of weathering even if Treasure re-sells ShitpileTM 1.0 without a profit. And then an even bigger cycle starts.

So, is "liquidity" the key to an indefinite extension of this pyramid game, or do you mean something else?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 at 05:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because nobody wants to buy Shitpile™, Shitpile™ asset prices have gone through the floor. Since the assets are required to be marked-to-market on the balance sheet, the fact that the market for them has frozen and the price has collapsed collapses the assets side of the banks' balance sheets. In the good old days, losses were not recognised unless they were realised, that is, an asset would be on the balance sheet at its original purchase price and the loss would be realised at the time of selling it. Liquidity had no impact on the balance sheet. Most of the Shitpile™ is still cash-flowing, it's just that the rights to that cash flow cannot be sold. The implied default risk given the prices is so astronomical as to be preposterous, but would you buy some Shitpile™ at what is currently likely a huge discount?

The only way to buy Shitpile™ is on cash, a leveraged purchase is too risky on the downside and leveraged purchases are more vulnerable the longer you intend to hold the assets. So if you're Warren Buffet and you're swimming in cash, or you're Bernanke/Paulson and can manufacture cash, you can buy Shitpile™ and hold it to maturity.

Now, the policy question is, can you unlock the liquidity and then set a monetary and fiscal policy that doesn't allow a repeat of the bubble?

The alternative view is that the "preposterously" high default and low recovery rates implied by the Shitpile™ prices are actually "accurate", and then you have a solvency problem.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 at 05:31:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See also these discussions.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 at 05:34:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're supposing that the shitpile is still generating cash-flows. This is increasingly untrue and will get worse.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 at 09:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Primary market mortgages originated, then securitized as if asset, are no longer generating sufficient income to pay huge classes of (CMO) investors --PLUS-- corporate bonds which may or may not be dependent on the same unearned income to pay interest and retire debt (averting default) and capital gain from securities available for sale (MTM assets) on the balance sheet.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 at 02:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
can you unlock the liquidity and then set a monetary and fiscal policy that doesn't allow a repeat of the bubble?

My argument was that the two go hand in hand: to prevent the repeat of the bubble, or a new bubble based on other exotic financial instruments that weren't subject to the loss of confidence (hence ShitpileTM 2.0), these markets have to be closed, from which it follows that the ShitpileTM bought by Treasury should not be up for re-sale even in theory. I'm not sure even holding to maturity is compatible with that.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Sep 24th, 2008 at 01:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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