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and how do you stop these microstates from running their banking systems? when their biggest asset is secrecy?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 05:57:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And how you persuade people, many of whom are very sensitive about this stuff, that it's a good idea?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 05:58:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
they survive because too many (influential) people there are happy to have them around. If you kill that support in the big countries, it's VERY easy to strangle the small countries.

right after 9/11 would have been the perfect moment to clean all the offshore center off the table - they would not have said a peep for fear of provoking the beserk hyperpower bent on beating the shit out of anyone in its way.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 06:03:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree that that would have been a good time, and this might be a similar good time coming up if only because this will affect many more countries, The question is how do you get the support in all of the big countries?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 06:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Movements out of a transparent system are evident to all - their amount and destination.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 06:04:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If it ever comes inside the transparent system.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 06:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You still have accounting ports (as it were) at the edges. And most of the useful stuff you can buy is inside the system.

If I try to bribe someone with 2000 square miles of African savannah instead of a big pile of cash, the edges of the transaction would still be booked even without a standard link between them. In the case of land, deeds would be registered.

You could only bribe people by buying things and loaning them permanently. This would work, up to a point, but it's much more precarious and public than anything we have today.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 06:30:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well thats the monetary bribery angle mostly fixed, (which just leaves Sex, Drugs, power, favours) how about cash, would you have to get rid of cash for this plan to work? with cash still being in existence, transparency is a bit of a mirage.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 06:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See my cashless comment upwards

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 07:15:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sex, drugs, power etc all involve someone getting paid to provide a service. It maybe lower down the food chain of exchange transactions, but it nevertheless appears and has to be explained.

But let's not get caught up in finding all the comparisons with our current models that 'prove' why transparency couldn't work. That is the easy bit.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 07:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Was just interested if you could see an easy way round this.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 07:34:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I admit that my view of society is ideological. And probably jaundiced ;-)

But I work in a business that involves accumulative what-if brainstorming that only stops when everyone is quite clear that we have gone too far. On the road to madness, however, the process usually throws out some useful ideas that could not be reached any other way.

Sorry if I appeared to be attacking....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 07:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
no problem, didn't notice that you might be attacking (I've got a degree in philosophy, attacking for others often seems like good clean knockabout clown fights to me) Like you my experience is to push shuddering creaking arguments to the point they break or everyone gets dragged off to a place with bouncy wallpaper, agree that it shows things that you dont get to in other ways.

 was just trying to tease more detail out of you.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 08:07:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and how do you stop these microstates from running their banking systems? when their biggest asset is secrecy?

France has an escort carrier, I believe?

I would argue that breaking open tax cheat enabling countries is one of the very, very few justifiable uses of plain old gunboat diplomacy.

But even without that, one could simply outlaw all transactions going to or from such places and/or places that do not have similar transparency laws. 'Course, that'd require the transparent system to be self-sufficient (and then some) so it could effectively break off all financial contact with the noncompliant countries, so gunboat diplomacy might be easier.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 09:38:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
it's hard enough to get people to go to war over oil,  I'd have thought that declaring war over the non-compliance with banking regulation 37c would be a nightmare. and those press barons , with all their money salted away in the cayman islands to avoid tax wouldnt exactly make it easy or popular.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 10:25:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Last time I checked it was incredibly easy to go to war, even over completely made up and obvious lies. So how hard can it be to start a war when there is a real reason to do it?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 10:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Oposition parties would argue that it wasn't a real reason, and most offshore banking havens are hardly run by maniac dictators.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 26th, 2008 at 12:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of the time you won't need to actually go to war. If you control their seas and airspace, there is a whole range of sanctions and gunboat diplomacy that fall short of war.

If, for instance, a government were to DOS - say - the Cayman Islands' internet grid, do you really think the public would object? If a government sabotaged their phone lines? If a government "accidentally" jammed their radios and satellite uplinks?

History doesn't suggest that the public will mind at all. Of course, I'd wish that we had a public that did mind. But then again, if we had that, we probably wouldn't have a big problem with tax havens in the first place.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:50:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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