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If you make the bottlenecks by replacing the two middle-most lanes by light rail tracks, people can still get into your little paradise, only they'll have to leave their cars behind...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 06:26:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is more than adequate in Paris. The problem is that it is not similarly dense in the suburbs, and traffic has been growing mostly in the suburbs over the past 20 years - traffic in central Paris is less today than it was 20 years ago.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:12:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A general problem that I think exists with suburbian public transportation is that it is often conceptualised as 'getting to the centre'. But the city as a concentric entity is useless as a development model. The biggest payoffs for further densification, public transportation, urbanisation all exist within the suburbs.

Light rail doesn´t make sense in much of Paris itself, for instance, but it would probably bring great benefits to the surburbs. I see that the Metropolitan region is already on this:

The Lighter Side of Paris Railway Technology

Decision-makers for Paris and the Île-de-France region seem in little doubt that the speed of service implementation and flexibility of light rail makes it a transport problem solver and that it is, in fact, back to stay.

There is a commitment to expand the format, with mode interchanges remaining to the fore in planning. The wholly new 'Y' configured Saint-Denis/épinay-sur-Seine/Villetaneuse route around the north eastern neighbourhoods would see a tram network in place, as opposed to the present single T1 line, also set for further extension.

It is unlikely, though, that Paris will again see multiple tram routes in the centre as per Brussels or Amsterdam. The principal role of modern Paris tramways is that of a high capacity direct link between outer districts, obviating the need to travel wastefully via the centre, thus also freeing capacity on radial routes. Cutting across such routes, the trams can provide any number of interchanges with SNCF Transilien services, RER and to a lesser extent in the outer districts, RATP's Metro.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:40:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
nanne:
A general problem that I think exists with suburbian public transportation is that it is often conceptualised as 'getting to the centre'

Absolutely.  If I want to travel between my auntie and my sister on the outskirts of London I have to use my car (a 25 minute drive). otherwise I have to go from zone 6 all the way across the underground to the other side of zone 1 and then all the way back out again, which can take 2 hours.  There are buses but on the weekends one an hour and it takes at least an hour and a half.

Now if I lived in one part of London and worked in another area on the outskirts, that's a nightmare.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 08:17:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You van say exactly the same for Paris.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:13:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in that the highway network has been designed a lot better than in London and thus, when there is no traffic, it is incredibly easy to go around Paris really quickly.

That does not help you for daily commutes, when these highways are jammed, but the rest of the time, it is really convenient to drive around Paris.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:41:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the circular RER line is long overdue. They're talking about it again, but it will take another 10 years to get there. Meanwhile, the third circulal highway around Paris is about to be completed (well, the second one in distance from from the center).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because everyone loves graphs...

From a 2004 World Business Council for Sustainable Development study (mainly car industry) -- originally a 2002 Renault publication. At least 6 year-old data, but it's the big picture...

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 10:13:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See these arguments raised (just with Paris as example) in my dKos diary Local Rail (4/5): Light Rail, Tram-Bus.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 12:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is that Paris' inner suburbs, where trams are being built, are already dense enough that they'd need heavy rail. Those suburbs are the equivalent in Paris of Brooklyn in New York City. Many of the projected tramway lines have enough potential for heavy rail ; but lack of funding, very complex financing and politicking, means only trams get built. There's the project of building the Métrophérique - a metro ring around Paris, within the inner suburbs - but that is to be finished 20 years from now, and clearly lacks ambition ; it not a single line that's needed but a network, of a similar density as Paris' network.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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