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The House is now debating this thing. A Republican congressman whose name I did not catch just called it a cow patty; in plain English that would be a pile of shit.

Now a California Dem crying NO.

by melvin on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:39:09 AM EST
Well the "markets" are holding a gun to their heads.  The Irish market is down 12% and (foreign) hedge funds are short selling the Irish Banks.  Silly really - there is no way the Irish Government will let the banks fail - and many would like to see them nationalised in any case.  

Booman is going ape-shit about Dems taking a chance and voting against the cow patty because he fears total melt-down.  But why don't Governments let the markets "find their own level" and then buy up whatever they WANT at bargain basement prices?  There is no law against taxpayers also turning a profit on their investments - and maybe its about time they did.

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 11:25:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've come to the conclusion that opinions on the bailout and the crisis are pretty much independent of facts: people are seeing precisely what they want to see.

Is a bailout necessary? No one knows.

Is the proposed plan the best available? No one knows.

Will the Irish government be able to stop banks failing? Who knows?

It's pretty much all bullshit at this stage.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 11:30:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a low-information, high-stakes game and you can't not play.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 11:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman:
I've come to the conclusion that opinions on the bailout and the crisis are pretty much independent of facts:

There are almost no facts behind "the magic of the markets" - it's all about intangibles like trust, confidence, and judgments about what might or might not happen in the future.

That is why people are having to buy a ball of smoke - to put it kindly.  Politics, for all its faults, likes to deal with slightly more tangible assets - and real people in the real economy like to know an awful lot more about what they are buying.

To an extent its about asking people to have some confidence in their own future.  The real argument is about to what extent those who take take the risks also get the rewards.

In who's favour is the deal structured?

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 11:42:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Left or Right (and everywhere outside politics) there is this class of human beings that they don't have to open their mouth for us to know what they are going to say. They are the fanatics of "something".

"The market is always right"
"The market is always wrong"

I would suggest that these people are, in the fundamental equal: they are dogmatics. Run away.

Or, as Bertrand Russell (one of the best antidotes to this type of mentality) would say:

I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong

by t-------------- on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 11:59:13 AM EST
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