Display:
What do you think would be appropriate and effective?

Raise the surtax?  Lower the Income Level at which the surtax kicks in?  Flat tax on all income? (Note: that would hurt the poor and Middle Class badly.)  Progressive tax?  Forget the time limitation?  National Sales Tax in some form?  (Again, that would most affect, unless 'glossed' in some manner, mostly the poor and Middle Class.)

Something else?

by ATinNM on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Raise the surtax, make it permanent, and add some even higher rates for higher incomes. I mean, I'd hope the Socialist candidate could aim for more progressive taxation than Reagan's US...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flat tax. On wealth.

Oh, and confiscatory inheritance taxes.

And ban billionaires. Well, ban €-billionaires. $-billionaires may soon be thirteen to the dozen.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By "wealth" you mean the monetarized value of all property held by an individual?
by ATinNM on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's certainly one way of doing it.

However, if we're talking about a flat tax, my own preference would be to tax the means of production: They don't move around too much, they're hard to hide on the Cayman Islands, and no amount of cooking the books can obfuscate them.

Plus, it gives a simple and effective means to stop tax cheats: If nobody pays property tax on a factory, that must mean that nobody wants to claim ownership, and the factory thus belongs to the government. That way, the state gets its taxes and the fatcats get to figure out among themselves who'll be paying them.

The value of each asset should be priced as the higher of the market value and the government auditors' assessment in order to dampen asset price bubbles.

I don't really care about Wall Street or their funny-money or their fancy paper. When the last chip hits the table, he who controls the productive assets wins.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't sure what you meant.  Got it.

Property taxes, here in the States, are levied by local and state authorities, for the most part.  A Federal property tax on land, farms, factories, & etc held by US corporations outside the US is a really interesting idea.  If dedicated to the same purposes as the local property taxes: education and infrastructure, it could get broad support.  

At least I see a way of presenting a good case to the Public.

by ATinNM on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 04:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... by one of the Central American nations in its land reform ... use the land value declared for tax purposes as the compensation that must be paid if land is nationalized.

Of course, the result was the CIA acting as an enforcer for United Fruit in overthrowing the government. But in abstract, its a check on understating taxable property value that bears considering.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Oct 12th, 2008 at 11:47:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, in the interim, while the government gets its own auditor corps up and running.

The threat of nationalisation at compensation equivalent to the value declared for tax purposes is scary if and only if a) you systematically under-value your land in order to defraud the taxpayers AND b) there is a real need for land reform.

I am not sure that there is a real need for land reform in much of The West(TM). So we'd need an auditor corps to assess the property values.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... scary was the political economy of it. There likely is a political economy of acquiring undervalued property and selling it at auction on the open market that would make it sufficiently scary ... though I don't think I'll be thinking that through.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:50:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What would be appropriate ? A pound of flesh ? A quart of blood ? selling their children into slavery ?

The difficulty is that, cutlurally, people may be outraged by their greed, but they don't actually think it's wrong. To the winnner, the spoils.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In order to make this fly, the Bill has to be seen as "fair."  A real problem is the success the Right has had in making any Tax = "Unfair."  Even in this crises the GOP has been out trying to whip-up broad support for tax cuts.

And Senator Obama is out spouting a "Tax cut for the poor and Middle Class."

To help solve the problem the Tax part of this needs to be revenue enhancing.  Meaning some group is going to have to pay more.  The obvious group are those who benefited by the Looting - in Frank Schnittger's apt wording.  One way is by increasing the tax responsibility of individuals.  Another is by increasing (i.e., making the bastards fork over) the tax responsibility of Corporations.  

Even a flat tax on Corporations would raise a lot of money AND meet the "Fairness" qualification.

by ATinNM on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Taxing corporations? Jobs! Investment! Communities! Doomed!

Oh, wait - we don't have any of those anyway. Carry on.

One other useful item on the list is repealing the law which gives corporations some of the same rights as individuals, with none of the democratic responsibilities.

Another useful item would be creating a completely new index of economic welfare - and I don't mean GDP, I mean the Dow, which has become the de facto measure of economic health.

Let's say Corporation A decides to reimport jobs from China. Workers in the US are much more expensive than Chinese workers, so its profits will take an instant hit.

If enough corporations do this the Dow will be hammered, because 'analysts' will 'punish' corporations which are 'uncompetitive.'

With an alternative index based on populist economics - most usefully median disposable income - you can say neener neener neener to the Dow. As long as investment is still happening - which could be a useful metric for a companion index - it can crash and no one needs to care.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 05:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not a law, that was a Supreme Court decision, and thus higher than any law.  One would need a constitutional amendment for that, I think.
by Zwackus on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 01:51:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not familiar with the relevant case law, but perhaps corporations could be nerfed in ways that don't contradict the decision in question. By, for instance, imposing the demand that only half the board can be composed of representatives of the stockholders, while the other half is to be composed of members elected by the employees by secret ballot.

But oh, the hue and cry that would go up :-P

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Oct 1st, 2008 at 10:37:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or a Constitutional Amendment.

Or, you could simply restrict the granting of corporate personhood in meaningful ways, or that corporate persons be tasked with activities other than maximum shareholder return.

by Zwackus on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 04:17:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... it was introduced in a summary of a Supreme Court decision by the chief clerk, and then that summary of the decision referred to when the decision was used as a precedent.

But overturning it would require a quite different court than the one we have now.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Oct 12th, 2008 at 11:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

the rack will help get the offshore bank account passwords.

but no waterboarding, we don't do that...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series