Honor is gov't propaganda.
No one believes it.
If they did, they would enlist when the country goes to war. The evidence shows that they don't.
Instead, they honor veterans out of their own guilt for not really believing the bogus propaganda.
And if they wouldn't believe, that much of the electorate believes it, they probably would answer much harsher, when this propaganda is abused, e.g. when Bush sends general Petrayus into the political arena, to profit from the military nimbus. But they do fear backlash. Or in the run up of the war in Iraq, or the damage the Democrats feared, what would be the reaction in the population, when they would vote only for enough money to withdraw the troops, leaving the heavy material behind, but not for an ongoing war, or....
Of course that's just indirect evidence, maybe the typical American thinks completely different, and the political elite just believes they are doing effective propaganda (in a strangely bipartisan agreement). But what evidence have you for that? While I know of course only a little part of the US media, I can't believe you would get such an impression by watching CNN, MSNBC, FOX, read the NYT, Washington Post, or follow any debate of presidential candidates during primary season. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
I think it's largely because of the sterile depiction of war in American media. No casualties are shown--some soldiers are alive and some are dead and gone, but the tens of thousands of wounded are invisible.
I see it everyday. 2 minutes from my house.
I gave you the stats.
If people believed the propaganda, they'd live it.
But they don't. How else can you explain the extreme contradiction between support for the war and refusal to enlist? The fact is, if we had a draft, then and only then would you see Americans come to grips with what it REALLY means to go to war. As it is now, the burden is carried by the poor and uneducated. That's why the propaganda still dominates. The propaganda is not meant as a recruiting tool for young soldiers. It's there to be used as a political cudgel to question people's patriotism.
You want proof? If we really honored military heroism, then John Murtha and John Kerry would not be cast as cowards.
The homecoming parades are attended by 100s of friends, not thousands of citizens. Big difference.
And you can die when you go to war or becoming seriously wounded. People my be afraid, but admire the brave of other, more 'cool' people. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
Are you saying that fear is a trait of certain races, social classes, etc.?
But like I said, I think you are mostly right on this.
I taught at a university with a ROTC program (U. of Rochester) and had long talks with my officer candidates. That is a slightly different story, as you say.
You say those who don't enlist and say it is honourable are hypocrits and liers. I say they are consistently wrong. And I think this is much more dangerous. Liers (and we don't speak here about a few super rich, but about most of the middle class) may know when stop, stupid people don't. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
You're leaving out the political aspect of this. The GOP has been long affiliated with the military, and they use military propaganda as a political cudgel. This is incentive enough for someone to be a hypocrite, rather than merely "wrong."
They are so proven wrong on Iraq (80% of AMERICANs are now against it) but these elites will stick to being WRONG because of the political value of the propaganda. That tells me that they don't care whether they are right or wrong. They'll stick to the "honorable" line.
If military service were truly "honored" then wouldn't those who favor militarism take care of the soldiers who come home wounded?
Are you aware that our health care for veterans is a disaster? You're better off being poor and uninsured than you a soldier.
They are so proven wrong on Iraq Yes, and telling, that one is against this war, or was against it from the beginning isn't something considered 'unpatriotic' anymore, or? Sure, the Republicans play the "Obama is for losing in Iraq" game, this may help to consolidate their most extremist base, but will hardly work to gather independents. It did work in the run up of the war in 2002. Many say, the then recent memory of 9/11 has boosted that. For sure many Americans after 9/11 did think, the country needed a strong answer (~90% approval to Bush in the beginning of the Afghanistan war); was there a mass enlistment of middle class people with good job chances after 9/11?
If military service were truly "honored" then wouldn't those who favor militarism take care of the soldiers who come home wounded? The polit clowns use it as propaganda, and they tell they would care well for the veterans. Low information voters might think McCain as a veteran himself will care more for the veterans than Obama. Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den MenschenVolker Pispers
McCain comes from a military family in the officer class, so it's an expected thing that his son would join. McCain's Dad and grandad were also officers. Officer class is indeed, educated, more affluent, more white. I'm talking about the grunts, not the officers.
A huge number of the soldiers over in Iraq right now are part of the National Guard. These are so-called weekend warriors who earn an extra paycheck. I knew lots of NG people growing up and I would not say they joined for militaristic reasons.
Lastly, after 9/11, enlistment dropped among ALL classes.
While I agree with you on who joins up, I think they are a somewhat self-selected group from the poor and middle income population. Most wouldn't have joined if they didn't see it as a way out of a dead end life, but the patriotism stuff tends to be a secondary reason, indeed it's what distinguishes them from their peers who don't enlist.
I think that once they're in and have been through boot camp, then yes, I agree, they have bought in to the lore. By the way, I'm not saying that all of them have disowned that macho bullshit. It definitely plays into some enlistments.
The recruiters talk an excellent game: opportunity, training, free school, etc. Money.
