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So proportionally representative is not good enough. What, is, then, good enough? And what about the assumption that people only see role models of their same gender and skin colour?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:17:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not what I'm saying. Ideally there shouldn't be any barriers to anyone who has something to offer and wants to get involved.  Where there are higher proportions of BME groups in certain areas it ought to be easier to find people to get involved. But the evidence shows us there are more barriers to involvement for certain groups, which is why those groups are targetted. And research into the causes for low participation rates is telling us what is important to these groups and what will encourage them to come forward.

One thing we find in unions is that black members are reluctant to become reps because they don't want to get landed with the 'black reps' position and they feared being pigeon holed to equalities stuff when they'd rather not cover that area.  This is especially so where there is only one BME person in a workplace.

It isn't that people only see role models of the same gender/ethnicity but having those role models shows that it can be done, it encourages more people to get involved.  I grew up without knowing any other deaf or disabled people, I had absolutely nobody to look up to. All I saw was that I am different and because of that I can't be accepted if I want to do the same things that other people do.  

I still face situations where people don't take me seriously when they realise I am deaf. So the low expectations of me from others, I internalised and had nobody 'like me' to show me it could be different.  

These kind of attitudes, on both sides, will not change until there is greater diversity of people who are active in public life and who hold positions of status in workplaces etc. It isn't about driving out the white men but it is about bringing more new people in. When it is commonplace to see black MP's and younger women MP's and disabled people in CEO positions, then these issues will begin to disappear.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:43:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Wales:
That's not what I'm saying. Ideally there shouldn't be any barriers to anyone who has something to offer and wants to get involved.

I think this makes much more sense than the kind of tokenism which seems to have been driving equality legislation. Even when women make it to board level, they'll most likely be women with upper or upper-middle class backgrounds. The opportunities available to an upper or upper middle class white woman are very much wider than those available to both men and women much lower down the totem pole.

It's not equality that's the issue, it's class. It marinates English culture like a very old and musty vinegar, and it's pervasive in personal, social, economic and political relationships. Outsiders, irrespective of gender or ethnic origin, can only move up the totem pole by demonstrating an approrpriate class identity and showing that they accept class values. This includes clothing and appearance, attitude to others, social manners and cultural interests.

Old Labour's union links provided a channel for social mobility which could offer rough and ready access to power without the usual public school -> Oxbridge -> patronage circuit. Thatcher didn't just kill the unions, she also closed that channel. Making good education - which includes social networking - less affordable for the working and lower middle classes has closed it further.

You won't see equality of any kind unless those channels are opened again. The big test isn't what happens in boardrooms, but in the mix of people who become MPs. When there's a solid proportion of activists and amateurs in among the Oxbridge trust funders and 'local business people' then it's going to be possible to take equality seriously as a social reality.

When there's a mechanism which makes that possible, I suspect the gender issue will look after itself.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 08:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When there's a mechanism which makes that possible, I suspect the gender issue will look after itself.

Why would you think that?  

by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 08:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How many activist groups do you know which are exclusively male?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 09:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Activist groups? The ones I've encountered tend to be made up of highly educated folks, with on average higher than median socio-economic background.

On the other hand my general impression is that there's a decent sized segment of the poor who are sexist and/or racist and/or homophobic. And a significantly larger group who isn't willing to make a major issue out of that sort of prejudice. The track record of unions on pushing equality isn't all that great.

You pointed out that equal opportunity at the upper reaches of society isn't going to do anything about class. I agree. But I think the reverse is equally true.

by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 09:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is exactly the narrative that needs to be picked up that the categorisation encouraged by the current raft of equality legislation doesn't give room for.  

This is why I am disappointed by what appears to be coming our way - or more importantly, not coming our way - through the Equality Bill.

EHRC in Wales at least - from speeches and discussions I have been around for - has picked up the issue of social class and vital in the quest for achieving a more equality society.  I really hope that we start to see this kind of narrative develop, but the equality strand mode of thinking is very ingrained at the moment.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 05:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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