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A couple of articles in the Independent caught my eye;-

Independent - Lead article

Back in 1950 in his essay on the British pub, George Orwell listed his reasons for visiting his favourite local. They included such things as a good fire burning; it must be quiet enough to talk; pub games only in the public bar; barmaid knows most customers by name; besides cigarettes and pipe tobacco, the pub sells stamps and aspirin; draught stout on tap; beer served in glass or pewter tankards.
The aspirin and stamps may be a little excessive. But apart from that, pub owners could do worse than study Orwell's list. With news that four pubs a day are closing nationally, and of an increasing number of villages without a pub, it is too simplistic to point to the smoking ban as the main reason why more and more people are losing the pub-going habit. The causes for this worrying decline are surely more "Orwellian".

Independent - Business - Wetherspoon turns to food to counter decline in beer sales

JD Wetherspoon's profits before tax fell by 11 per cent in the past year because of the smoking ban. But the chain's sales - which were down by 1.1 per cent for the year as a whole - crept back up to 1.1 per cent year-on-year growth in the five weeks to the end of August, thanks to a growing emphasis on food sales.

"Sales were down a little, but we expected that in the first year of non-smoking, and we have had good growth in food sales," John Hutson, chief executive, said yesterday.
[....]
Pub chains are increasingly looking beyond beer for their profits. Punch Taverns, which reported annual sales down nearly 3.5 per cent last week, is also betting on food

what they don't mention is that the beer sold in most chain pubs is bland and uninteresting. I have in the past described a lot of people as just wanting a bland social drinking liquid. which is fine and I'm not going to compalin about that. But the beers now avialbe across a broad swathe of the coutnry are falling beyond bland into tasteless and unpleasant. It's no surprise that people don't want ot go to pubs when they know that what they'll be served when they get there is a regrettable soup of diminshed ambitions.

Weatherspoons used to have good beers in their pubs, I'd seek them out. But increasingly they fell back on a restricted range of awful beers. I now avoid their pubs. Most chain pubs are the same, they get in the cheapest most tasteless nonsense and sell it as expensively as the market will bear.

And they wonder why people don't drink as much as they used to. Back when I used to venture around more than I do now I used to suggest that there weren't 50 pubs worth going to inside the M25 ring motorway around london. I no longer think that's true, but its way less than 100. And certainly not the 200+ CAMRA puts in london alone.

But management companies don't know anything about pubs, all they know is profit and loss, they only bought the pubs cos they were cheap in a rising property market. The idea of what a pub means is lost on them, the idea of identity sounds expensive. The idea of quality repels them.

good pubs always survive. I don't know a single pub in London that serves good beer that is struggling. but I know a lot that don't which are. Can you tell that to faceless business dorks ?? apparently not.


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 12:42:34 PM EST
Chain pubs? How weird. I'm not a beer drinker but my friends seem to have a pretty wide selection of microbrewery stuff to choose from.
by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 12:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the financial barrier to entry in the UK is very high. Unless you've won the lottery you simply can't afford a pub. So every time a pub comes on the market it's either sold to a chain or is turned into housing.

And before somebody checks, I do know the bricks and mortar are cheap. It's everything else that's expensive.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 12:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here the bottom floor stuff generally either can't be turned into housing or is much more valuable as a retail property since street level residential on a commercial street is at a serious discount. The saying is that about half of all bars and restaurants fail within two years in NYC. But there's always another sucker ready to try. Plus, given the failure rate, plenty of used fixtures and stuff at a low price. The big problem is rent.
by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 12:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In NYC you are fortunate to have Alex Hall, who used to run the Evening Star in Brighton and is now a real ale consultant across a lot of New England. So there's a lot of real ale to be had.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 01:07:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
NB - smoking bans are great for easing the difficulties of meeting strangers. The best singles action is right outside the door. It's funny, someone walks up to a stranger and starts talking to them in the bar the general reaction is awkward polite leave me alone. Outside, enjoying a nic fix, everyone is happy to chat.
by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 12:48:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's because smoking is cool.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 02:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But surely it is because smokers know they might be the one needing help to get their fix at some point in the near future that they don't mind strangers coming to them to ask for a light or a cig?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm just referring to general chat, no light/cig requests needed. We smokers are just all around nicer people. ;)
by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you exclude non-smokers.

One is still a smoker when one is with non-smokers (and doesn't smoke). One is no longer a non-smoker when one is with smokers. How hard is that to understand?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, so you'll take Marek's bait but not mine?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:04:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
smoking is not cool, it stinks!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:14:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Feel better?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:15:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, thanks! And you?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:25:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(lights up, coughs loudly) Yes, of course.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Helsinki meet will be for smokers and other admitted drug takers. Coffee and tea addicts are fine too. The 'anything that turns you on' bunch. Of course, there will be no forced passive participation in any of these rituals - a separate room will be provided for breaks for each addiction, including anal retentiveness. Capgras patients will be offered special accommodation.

There is only one condition for attendance at the Helsinki meet: you cannot fly there. But you can videoconference. That way, in virtual space, what you do to yourself is merely pixels. There is no passive experience in virtual space. It's just words, images and your memory.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 03:21:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, what makes smokers 'recognise' another smoker who can be asked for fire?

Since about three years, I have been approached by ever moe smokers, from idiot teenagers to old men, all surprised when I told them off.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:40:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in my case, it's usually a pretty good bet when they're lighting up, too.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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