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The Danish graph is a story in and of itself... One of the first things the Fogh government did when they came to power in the winter of 01/02 was to raise the speed limits on a lot of highways.

If you eyeball the line for Denmark, you'll see that it bottoms out around 02/03...

I haven't run the numbers, so I can't be sure that it's signal rather than noise, though.

I'd quibble with your topmost graph, though. One outlier is not evidence. I have no doubt that in a few years, we will in fact be able to see a trend, but we can't yet.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jan 21st, 2009 at 11:26:47 AM EST
You should not rely only on empiric methods, but as well on analysis. If you have a change of the situation, that from other analysis makes a lot of sense, that it will have an effect, an outlier is something quite different.
Or in other words. Frequentist methods sucks, compared to Baysian approaches, that figure in a priori probability densities. I take dodo's graph with the explaination any time as a evidence that the methods proposed in Hungary work.

Nevertheless:
Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger ;-p

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Wed Jan 21st, 2009 at 01:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's true. But I'd like to have something a little more solid to put into my prior than a general belief in the value of speed limits :-P

I'm quite sure the conclusion is correct, but the argument would be improved by drawing on similar experiences from other countries.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jan 21st, 2009 at 02:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just preemptively as you seem to develop a theoretician like focus on formalisable argument over better, but only qualitativly arguments, I cite N.N. Taleb's The Black Swan:

When mathematicians say "handwaving" [and the idea that speed limits help reduce traffic victims is certainly handwaving] disparagingly, about someone's work, it means that the person has a) insight, b) realism, c) something to say , and it means d) he is right, because that's what critics say wehen they can't find anything more negative.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 04:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bah.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 05:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Freie Fahrt für freie Bürger ;-p

You too would have made a nice Grand Coalition with onetime ET regular Ritter :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Statistical variation depends on sample size. This is apparent on the second graph: check the lines for the Baltic countries or Luxembourg. For larger countries, you have a signal not noise.

  • The large bump you see for Slovakia is the result of the April 1997 general speed limit raise (50 to 60 in cities, 110 to 130 on highways).

  • In the Czech Republic, several road safety measures were implemented until 2006, when they switched to a points system, too. In 2007, the new government even talked about raising the limit on highways to 160 km/h...

  • The 22% drop in the Netherlands in 2004 doesn't seem to have a single reason, but it seems a major fuel-efficient driving campaign combined with the peaking of roundabout construction that year.

  • For Hungary, the next biggest change, the steep rise in 2001-2002 coincides with the introduction of the points system in an (initially) lenient form and a raise of speed limits by 10 km/h.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jan 21st, 2009 at 03:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was the Slovenian graph I was looking at, not the Danish...

Ah well, confirmation bias can be fun while the music is playing...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jan 21st, 2009 at 05:53:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh... on the other hand, that uptick in 2007 is quite spectacular, even considering the size of Denmark's population -- could you check if it had a specific reason? (And was it discussed in Danish media?)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:34:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the size of Denmark's population

Erm, having checked, it's not that small...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 02:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't recall anything from the news. But I don't pay much attention to the car side of the infrastructure anyway. Tends to do bad things for my blood pressure.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 03:58:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
:-)

Two weeks on the train to Salzburg, I overheard an exchange between an older passenger and the young conductor (both Austrians). The passenger praised the train's smooth ride and made some comparison with a car, to which the conductor replied cheerfully but with emphasis, "I wouldn't know - I don't drive a car!" Kindred spirit, I thought.

For me, the interesting part of this story is the regulation/self-regulation aspect. (Plus, enforced and/or lowered speed limits on roads will make trains more competitive :-))

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 06:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, that's my favourite response when asked how to find a parking spot in Copenhagen: You don't. You go by train.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jan 22nd, 2009 at 08:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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