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We've lond debated on the fact that a pan-European vote would not be binding in itself in each country, and we'd still need either a post facto unanimous ratification using national procedures, or a first unanimous vote to authorise such a procedure in the future.

Could political leaders all agree to be bound by a pan-European vote (and unanimously implement the national instruments required to make what was voted upon legally binding?) Because that's what's required.

It takes a lot of political courage - but it's not courage that's needed, it's a sense of mission by the currently in power politicians to agree to give up some of their powers.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 at 10:09:11 AM EST
Jerome a Paris:It takes a lot of political courage - but it's not courage that's needed, it's a sense of mission by the currently in power politicians to agree to give up some of their powers.

How much of a hot-button does the word and notion of "sovereignty" remain in Europe and different European countries?  Is it routinely used by anti-Europeanists to rally nationalists against any movement to give up more of these powers?  Or have Europeans in general -- if "in general" can even be applied in this context -- come to accept the manifest destiny of European unification (and the inevitable surrender of national sovereignties that that entails), squabbling only over the timeline and approach in which this unification is to take place?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 at 10:27:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'Manifest destiny' is a loaded term, IMO. I believe in the project of European unification, and I'm sure a plurality of people in each European country believe that we have a lot in common and should cooperate.

This is only different in England (not necessarily Scotland or Wales), where a lot of the people feel that they have more in common with some of the former colonies.

My guess is that a lot of people are dissatisfied with the EU as it is functioning now. They have a slightly contorted vision of what the EU is, and why it is not working as well as it could. And they're unable or unwilling to see that it is and will remain the main instrument for unification.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 at 12:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The word "souvereignty"is not the issue.

The potential to make the give aways on the national level and the unpleasant decisions an 'order from Brussels' for which the national politicians don't have to take public responsibility is the key point for the current situation.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 at 01:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Barnavi uses the word "ideology" for the sense of mission:

Pourquoi l'esprit européen est-il en berne ? - Le monde bouge - Télérama.fr
L'Europe ne peut avancer que si elle redevient une idéologie - celle qu'ont portée les pères fondateurs ou ce fameux couple franco-allemand, qui fut, remarquez-le, toujours représenté par des hommes politiques de sensibilités divergentes : de Gaulle et Adenauer, Schmidt et Giscard, Mitterrand et Kohl étaient profondément, idéologiquement européens. Après eux sont venus des hommes et des femmes d'accord pour poursuivre le travail entamé, mais qui n'avaient pas le « réflexe » européen. Que l'Europe ne soit plus une idéologie, cela ne l'empêche pas de fonctionner. Mais ça l'empêche d'avancer.Europe cannot advance unless it gets back to being an ideology again - the one borne by the founding fathers or by the famous Franco-German couple, which was, let's note, always represented by politicians of diverging political sensitivities: Adenauer and de Gaulle , Schmidt and Giscard, Mitterrand and Kohl were deeply, ideologically European. After them came men and women who agreed to go on with the job, but who didn't have the European "reflex". That Europe is no longer an ideology does not prevent it from functioning. But it prevents it from moving forward.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 30th, 2009 at 11:19:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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