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BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | A prediction that's a safe bet
Getting rich quick - and having much more money than you ever need - will look as pointless as taking bodybuilding too seriously, says Clive James.

This is my last broadcast until my next spell and I'm in a summing up mood. I have no New Year resolutions apart from the usual one about tidying my office in case the body of my missing cleaner is lying mummified under that pile of magazines.

But I do feel like making a New Year prediction. I want to put down a marker that proves I have a grip on world events. The best way to prove this is to make a prediction that everybody knows has already come true, but that few people are yet ready to admit.

I hereby predict that from now on, starting today, nobody will look good who gets rich quick. I can predict more than that, in fact. Even getting rich slowly is going to look silly, if getting rich is the only aim in mind.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 01:13:12 PM EST
Well Clive, as a very comfortably well off person, is in no position to lecture the rest of us about how uncouth the yearnings of the rest of us might be, imo.

Maybe we shouldn't praise the getting rich quick, or even slowly, but i'm pretty sure it beats increasing impoverishment, which many face.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 01:49:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, to be fair to him he says that making money when the sole goal is to make money is going to be out of fashion - and the bodybuilding example is actually quite apt to convey his point: being in good shape is a good thing (as you would know given your activities of the day!), but having bulging muscles can easily become ridiculous.

If it were true that big money were to become only a nice by-product of otherwise satisfying activities, it would be quite a change; of course, it's still rather unlikely.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 02:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm, define "satisfying". Seriously, I have almost never had a "satisfying" job. I have never had a career, just been trapped in various kinds of tedious job I was usually unsuited to performing.

and I seriously believe that most people are in such situations. We don't do work because we actually like what we do, we do it so's we can sod off after our contracted hours and try to squeeze in what little life we can afford.

so, I guess when I see some guy who's had a pretty good life and had the fortune to be very well paid for living it lecture me about the awfulness of getting a lot of money I tend to get a little chippy about it. Esepcially when I'm pretty much broke and getting a few ridiculous unearned megabucks seems pretty damn attractive.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 02:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
so, I guess when I see some guy who's had a pretty good life and had the fortune to be very well paid for living it lecture me about the awfulness of getting a lot of money I tend to get a little chippy about it. Esepcially when I'm pretty much broke and getting a few ridiculous unearned megabucks seems pretty damn attractive.

That doesn't make it a useful fantasy. For nearly everyone, it isn't.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 02:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is really about reasonably well-off people finally happy to think that the rich will not lord over them.

Hmmm... maybe this is the upper midle class finally realizing it's been had and wanting to bring down to size the upper class?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 02:59:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I accept that is the background, but when one sees the rewards available in the media that have only  fallen behind finance as a source of income seemingly detached from reality in the last few years, I have to say that, from where i am, this is the pot calling the kettle black.

And if he isn't aware of this seeming hypocrisy, then he is as guilty of being insufferably smug as I suggest.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 03:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
UK TV personalities and 'humorists?' Insufferably smug?

Good lord - perish the thought.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 03:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Look, I don't know Clive James so I don't know whether he's normally smug and insufferable. What he wrote in his piece, however, is useful. In the same way that the last Viridian Note by Bruce Sterling was highly useful.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | A prediction that's a safe bet

It was agreed, back in the day, that serious artists should not look like hucksters. Now it is assumed that serious artists look even more serious if they do look like hucksters. They look bigger, more corporate, more influential. Or they did until yesterday. But now it's today, and it suddenly looks like a fast buck. It looks off. Madoff off. And it looks silly.

We've reached a turning point. A madness has gone out of fashion: the madness of behaving as if only too much can be enough. There will always be another madness, but not that one. From now on a man will have to be as dumb as an petrodollar potentate to think that anyone will respect him for sitting on a gold toilet in a private jumbo jet.


People have a need to compete on reputation and that competition has for the past 50 years mainly turned on the extent of one's physical possessions, up unto the absurdity of yachts with 100 crew and Dubai. Saying that it's no longer cool, rather, a source of embarassment has an aspect of self-fulfilment.

Maybe it will get somewhere, maybe not. What I don't understand is having resentment at the messenger.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 06:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, Clive James is usually vapid, middle-aged, middle-brow, smug and insufferable. He's an example of certain kind of media entity common in the UK - people who may be quite bright, in a grindingly banal and everyman-ish Readers Digest in-joke kind of a way, but who still manage to craft themselves careers as commentators and 'humorists.'

So it galls for two reasons - one of which is that James himself is unlikely to be poor, and the second of which is that what he's saying isn't true.

Nothing corporate will change because of anything that either Stirling or James write or say. The corporate world will still be fuelled by greed, toxic stupidity, egotism, pointless drama and social climbing for the sake of it. It may stop being fashionable to flaunt wealth - if only for fear of being lynched - but that's hardly going to stop the rest of the world from continuing to try to accumulate it.

It's a wrong-headed view because you don't take a nipple like greed away from people without giving them something else to suck on. Currently there's no replacement - survival is still on the same Darwinian branch with the same value set. Instead of accumulating when you win, you don't lose your home or your life.

That may be evidence of a New Seriousness - which may even be Far More Serious than last year's Seriousness was.

But it's not much of a real change, and it's certainly not a progressive one.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 06:46:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The subject field was intended to be a bit sarcastic. But there's something to it, maybe. Anecdotally, friends of my parents were complaining about the 'My Super Sweet Sixteen' show on MTV in the context of talking about the financial crisis. But will the show be cancelled?

Anyway, I'm hopeful about a general shift away from materialism in popular culture and Clive is doing his part in propagandising it, so bully for him.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 at 02:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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