Display:
Most religion based education counts as abuse in my book.

Excuse me, but wasn't most formal education somehow "religion based" up until a while back?  Get any wider a brush and you should take up house painting.

Look, I am an atheist, and think all religion is nutty to various degrees, but I don't think we can conflate all religious education as abuse based on extreme examples.  Not to mention the routine abuse that takes place in public schools.  I felt a thousand times more secure & respected in Catholic School than I did in public school.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 01:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, not in the UK. Religion based education was pretty unusual in the UK until the rules were changed by the labour party a few years back. Before then there'd be the odd catholic or jewish school here and there, but a long long way from common.

And all the people I met who'd attended them, which may or may not have been a representative group, seemed to speak of a level of casual thuggery from their teachers I found shocking. So, maybe in the US that's a broad brush, but not here.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 02:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ooops, sorry. that should be England, not UK.

Both Scotland and N Ireland have a very religiously divided education system, which probably accounts for the levels of sectarian violence that disfigures their culture. One of the best arguments against what the Labour party are encouraging in england is that we really don't want a dvided society like N Ireland's.

nb cannot comment on wales as I don't know.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 02:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I meant that the concept of formal secular education is a relatively modern concept.  In ye olden days, book-learning was largely administered by religious institutions, and even when they were not, the bible figured into curriculum along with reading, writing and arithmetic.

It's quite in vogue to dismiss religious education by focusing on the Catholics for abusing little boys.  But let's not forget that they've contributed countless libraries, schools and universities, and have often placed a higher standard on education than much of the public has.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 02:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I wasn't really concentrating on catholic schools, even tho' they feature in media narratives more than most. Protestants were mostly who I came into contact with, particularly from N Ireland where a brand of positively medieval vicousness from teachers seemed to be required. I'm not sure what educational standards had to do with anything that went on in them.

Unlike in the US, religious education is a standard part of the curriculum in all schools here. Even faith schools must teach a multifaith "awareness", rather than the dogmatics of their own. I've always thought it was a good thing and would be sorry to see it go, the lukewarm standardised approach has led to a great deal of semi-informed atheism here as well as discouraging the sort of religious extremeism that feeds off profound ignorance of what's in the bible 9or other religious book). Course it ain't perfect, but I think it works reaosnably well.

As for focus on education, unions in the UK were associated with strong pushes towards educational improvments here right up till the mid 60s while religious institutions were often viewed as backward and superstitious.

There seems to be a considerable cultural divide here.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 02:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My Catholic school had at least two not so very suspected paedophiles - S&M games during PE is not funny - and a couple of outright cryptofascist wingers who used lesson time as an excuse to hold forth on their own unique political philosophies and the wonders of Margaret Thatcher.

The headmaster was in his forties and still living with his mother.

In one of the lessons in the first year the class was told that 'Thou shalt not kill' doesn't apply during war time - that's when God doesn't have a problem with killing. In fact it was a sacred duty, etc.

The chaplain was fronting for Opus Dei - although he has now recanted and become one of their most vehement critics. I spent an interesting few evenings visiting an Opus Dei student house in West London because of him - largely under false pretences, because the bible study groups were sneaked in as a side event for more legitimate, not to mention more interesting, activities.

Academically it was one of the best non-public schools in London. And still is.

Which was - you know - nice and all, considering. Although considering the hot housing and the emphasis on 'standards', depressingly few former pupils have had careers of any notable noteworthiness or success.

Not all of the teachers were insane - some of them were as mature and warm as I've ever seen elsewhere. But a significan proportion were a very real Pink Floyd nightmare.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jan 5th, 2009 at 02:39:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series