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If I correctly understand the problem, it may be necessary for the loan servicing agencies who are responsible for collecting the money or foreclosing to reassemble the interests dispersed to all of the various tranches for a package of loans for each loan that is in default.  But before it could come to that they would first actually have to find the original loan documents, documents such as the signed copies of which I have in my files for each home I have owned or do own. Very many of these loans were made by "mortgage broker" boiler room operations back in 2003-2005, and records keeping does not seem to have been their forté.

The other interesting factor in this is that the further one gets from Wall Street and Washington, the less sympathy there is for the banksters and their problems.  The best bet for the banksters might be in the venue of the Supreme Court of the United States. However, were I the attorneys for the defendants, I would go to any lengths possible to keep the cases in state courts up to the level of State Supreme Courts.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 14th, 2009 at 10:55:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe you are right. But I think that it would take a lot of SC Justices twisting a lot of law to make this go away.

OTH: The effects of such a game would be fun to watch. Land of the Free would turn into the Wild West, with the rich of China/Germany/Netherlands/England owning all of the USians and our/their Commons.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 at 06:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
siegestate:
the rich of China/Germany/Netherlands/England owning all of the USians and our/their Commons
That might end up being a more enlightened set of owners than Wall Street...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 at 06:57:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A 5 to 4 decision FOR THE BANKS on an issue like this would be the final step in the consolidation of the power of finance over the society. A 5 to 4 decision FOR THE MORTGAGE HOLDERS would likely end the current situation, as it would take out, at a minimum, BOA, Citi and WF, along with numerous smaller banks.  With GS and Morgan it would depend on the balance of their CDSs and other derivative positions at the time.

For the SC it would be like the old Jack Benny routine where he is being held up at gunpoint:

Robber: "Your money or your life!"

Benny: "I'm thinking!  I'm thinking!"

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 at 11:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perfect analysis. Like I said, fun to watch as the house of cards either implodes or explodes.

History says that JPMorgan and GS have enough inside info to merely sell off at advantageous times and survive even stronger - being able to watch their moves would be the key. Anyone in ET want to be the mole?

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Fri Oct 16th, 2009 at 04:00:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A while back, I asked why someone with no financial problems could not simply stop making mortgage payments. The best explanation I saw is that the loan documents in cases like this are still valid, but the lender does not have title to the property. So they could still sue for the loan, but it would be more work, and they would not have the other advantages they would usually have such as getting ahead of other creditors, and being able to collect even in case of bankruptcy.

Can anyone confirm that such is the case. If what you say is correct, the only thing that will prevent most people in the U.S. from stopping payments on their mortgages is their own individual moral sense. Given what the banks have been up to lately, I'm not sure I'd want to bet on that...

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 at 07:17:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
gk:
If what you say is correct, the only thing that will prevent most people in the U.S. from stopping payments on their mortgages is their own individual moral sense.
See The Poor Are Honest by Chris Cook:
I learned the reality a few years ago in London, talking to a commercial bank strategist there. "We've had an intellectual breakthrough," he said. "It's changed our credit philosophy."

...

"The poor are honest," he said, accompanying his words with his jaw dropping open as if to say, "Who could have guessed?"

The meaning was clear enough. The poor pay their debts as a matter of honor, even at great personal expense. Unlike Donald Trump, the poor are less likely to walk away from their homes when market prices sink below the mortgage level. In today's neoliberal Chicago School language, the poor behave "uneconomically." That is, they make choices that do not make economic sense, but rather reflect a group morality. This sociological gullibility is what made them rich pickings for predatory lenders such as Countrywide, Wachovia and Citibank.

I remember reading that in the US people were beginning to worry about the change in average behaviour where simply walking away from a mortgage was becoming socially acceptable. This is not something that people in credit risk analysis have taken into account, but it is an understandable consequence of the public perception that they have been punked by the banks and that the government is in cahoots with them.

See "Jingle mail:" The Awful Sound Of "Voluntary" Foreclosure - Couric & Co. - CBS News

When I posted a poll asking whether walking away from a bad mortgage is "irresponsible" or "the smart thing to do," 63 percent agreed with "condoblue" - that walking away is the smart choice. And that's a scary trend for banks and lenders.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 at 08:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And that's a scary trend for banks and lenders.

But nowhere near as scary as people ceasing to make payments on a perfectly good mortgage if there's nothing anybody can do to them.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Oct 15th, 2009 at 08:39:29 AM EST
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