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Some things are apparent.
So taxation, pricing, design innovations, marketing narratives etc. can all have a major influences but run into major "consumer resistance" if a major adjustment in consumer lifestyle is required. Yes people will accept major changes, especially over time, but that is where politics and education gets much harder. notes from no w here
Thus, a fully sustainable society will have to consume no more than it can grow and will have to recycle non-renewable raw materials. If controlled fusion could ever be made to work then we could exist at a slightly higher level of material wealth, but the need to recycle raw materials would still be an issue. So, a sustainable US society would be about 10-15% of its present size. At this level people would have about the same wealth as those in present Bulgaria. Obviously, a big change from McMansions, but not the end of civilization either. I'll leave to another day discussions of how to achieve this peacefully, what people would do in such a reduced economy and how social services would be financed.
So, a sustainable US society would be about 10-15% of its present size. At this level people would have about the same wealth as those in present Bulgaria. Obviously, a big change from McMansions, but not the end of civilization either.
I'll leave to another day discussions of how to achieve this peacefully, what people would do in such a reduced economy and how social services would be financed.
My figure of 40% above is based on the estimates I've seen that the global ecological footprint is about 2.5 Earths (this, from memory - might be a different number).
So, how "poor" is "sustainable". I claim it need not be poor at all, as long as it's a managed transition. If we get there by means of a war or some other disaster it will be a much poorer place than it needs to be. En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
What is a "western standard and style of living"? I've dabbled previously in trying to get a hold on that definition just for muself - yet I've come to realise a very large spectre exists in the answer to the above question, widely varying per audience.
Thankfully there is a more or less unlimited amount of energy out there at reasonable costs (liquid fuel is another matter). I predict we will burn all the oil, gas and coal and then we'll switch over to nukes and wind. Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
An epistolatory dialogue between Nomad and DeAnander ... The first three are actually enshrined as a basic human rights. The most amazing discovery that ended up on my own little list, personally, was the shower. In our western, increasingly sanitised world, either the longing to be clean has become strong enough that we, as a people, feel uncomfortable after not having washed for a certain amount of time or considerable exertion -- or we might have evolved from sea-bathing fish-eating apes after all. Nothing, not even brilliantly clear Swedish lakes or burbling streamlets from which we'd drink and fill our bottles, could mitigate this urge. Hot, steaming showers were precious items for all -- no exception.
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The first three are actually enshrined as a basic human rights. The most amazing discovery that ended up on my own little list, personally, was the shower. In our western, increasingly sanitised world, either the longing to be clean has become strong enough that we, as a people, feel uncomfortable after not having washed for a certain amount of time or considerable exertion -- or we might have evolved from sea-bathing fish-eating apes after all. Nothing, not even brilliantly clear Swedish lakes or burbling streamlets from which we'd drink and fill our bottles, could mitigate this urge. Hot, steaming showers were precious items for all -- no exception.
Minoan civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Streets were drained and water and sewer facilities were available to the upper class, through clay pipes.
The need to have hot showers is very cultural. A 17th century european would not have understood the need to bath all the time. A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
A remarkably sophisticated drainage system was incorporated into the village's design - which may have included an early form of toilet facilities.
a month of vacation
You just ruled out the U.S. A least you didn't rub it in by including healthcare.
I do have a TV but it is only connected to a DVD, and is on perhaps 6 hours a week max. when I watch movies etc.
Flying is down to about 2 or 3 times a year - mostly to visit UK family and friends. Intercity in Finland is easy by train or express bus. You can't be me, I'm taken
But I do go infrequently to industry events and conferences, and that is where I mostly rekindle relationships. Saturday, for instance I'm at a 25 person dinner for IT tyros mostly in the online game industry - that kind of event, typically, will produce a couple of projects for me. I suppose in Finland that reputation is still a mighty powerful attribute because so much business is done on a handshake. It is not the golf course short cuts and inside information that people are after, but reliability and know-how. You can't be me, I'm taken
The parallel I would draw is with marketing. In small communities where everyone knows everyone else you don't need brands as a proxy for quality. You know the supplier, their skills, attitudes and track record. In a huge urban community you only have the barest symbolic cues to go on - and it is precisely these that the "science" of marketing seeks to manipulate.
So a product/service comes with all the "emotional values" and apparent qualities that you are looking for, but it reality is a piece of crap. It was just that their marketing department knew what you would be looking for (as indicators of quality) and manufactured false cues and "emotions" to make you think you were getting what you were looking for.
And the beauty of the process is that many think that the product/service was great (even when it was actually crap) because they can't admit to themselves that they'd been had. (ref. US Republican politics - which are brilliant at persuading people that they have exactly what the electorate want - give them the opposite - and then afterwards persuade people that they actually got what they originally wanted...) notes from no w here
The Anglo model values predation and total dominance and sees them as primary goals, over and above any other consideration - including product quality, sustainability, employee, customer and partner relationships, and ethical standing.
In the Anglo model, marketing is valuable because it enforces dominance over culture and consumers, and dominance over creative talent - that might be wasting its time making art, instead of selling sneakers.
The Euro model shares some of the same aims, but tends to be slightly more relaxed about diversity and experimentation. I think Europeans are also more cynical about corporate aims, and find it harder to derive their identify from them.
yes i think that's true, -continentally- speaking.
which might suggest the anglo model to be one that is au fond naive, if naive makes a polarity with cynicism.
which in turn might stem from the 'entitlement of empire'... The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.
Our former socdem PM, Göran Persson, once said something like the mass ownership of cars is the greatest freedom reform ever for the working class. I certainly understand what he meant. Before the advent of the car, most people had never traveled further than the distance they could walk or ride in a day or two.
And no, before you say it, this certainly doesn't mean that commuting in a car is the ideal way to go to work in an urban area. Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Car rental are all but impossible a lot of the time, like on weekends, evenings or whatever. On top of that you have the hassle of actually getting to the place where they rent the car. The extra time spent getting to the rental with the family, renting it, and then doing the same thing when you come back, probably means that nine times out of ten you'll cancel that trip to the lake instead. Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
The city was larger than Madrid in Area, despite being 15-20 times smaller in population. En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
Western standard of living. Comfortable home with power, clean and hot water, appliances (stove, TV, computer, fridge, freezer, shower, access to washing machine etc), a family car, a month of vacation each year. Something like that
So the universal norm is the present standard of living in Sweden. And if this is achieved people will be content and not strive for a mansion, a private jet and a pony? Karl Marx also believed that the standard of comfortable living in his time was universal and once achieved people could work about an hour a day and spend the rest with art and philosophy.
I do not think it is reasonable to assume that todays standards are tomorrows. Either we are dumb as yeast and demands will rise until we overshoot and crash (limited planet), or we have as a global society the option to modify what we perceive as a decent standard, and modify it to a level where it is sustainable. A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
when everyone on the planet lives at least at an adequate standard of living.
Will never happen - so it is a null hypothesis notes from no w here
'Reasonable' is culturally determined. Therefore it would in principle be possible to live in a reasonable way at widely different standards of living. You propose what is reasonable to you given what you know and the culture you live in.
However, because humans are bastards they tend to create unequal social organizations. While some societies are relatively egalitarian, the historical evidence is that it is possible for a culture to survive for a long time even if a substantial number of people have an 'unreasonably low' standard of living. Then there's both ex-post-facto cultural justifications for some people's misery, as well as individual adaptation to their living conditions.
Recall
Easy credit prevented things coming to a head earlier, but they would have and for the same reason - people will consume the culturally-determined "necessaries of life" whether or not this entails living above their means Project Gutenberg: Wealth of NationsConsumable commodities are either necessaries or luxuries. By necessaries I understand, not only the commodities which are indispensibly necessary for the support of life, but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people, even of the lowest order, to be without. A linen shirt, for example, is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. The Greeks and Romans lived, I suppose, very comfortably, though they had no linen. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty, which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct. Custom, in the same manner, has rendered leather shoes a necessary of life in England. The poorest creditable person, of either sex, would be ashamed to appear in public without them. In Scotland, custom has rendered them a necessary of life to the lowest order of men; but not to the same order of women, who may, without any discredit, walk about barefooted. In France, they are necessaries neither to men nor to women; the lowest rank of both sexes appearing there publicly, without any discredit, sometimes in wooden shoes, and sometimes barefooted. Under necessaries, therefore, I comprehend, not only those things which nature, but those things which the established rules of decency have rendered necessary to the lowest rank of people. All other things I call luxuries, without meaning, by this appellation, to throw the smallest degree of reproach upon the temperate use of them. Beer and ale, for example, in Great Britain, and wine, even in the wine countries, I call luxuries. A man of any rank may, without any reproach, abstain totally from tasting such liquors. Nature does not render them necessary for the support of life; and custom nowhere renders it indecent to live without them.
Project Gutenberg: Wealth of Nations
Consumable commodities are either necessaries or luxuries. By necessaries I understand, not only the commodities which are indispensibly necessary for the support of life, but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people, even of the lowest order, to be without. A linen shirt, for example, is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. The Greeks and Romans lived, I suppose, very comfortably, though they had no linen. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty, which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct. Custom, in the same manner, has rendered leather shoes a necessary of life in England. The poorest creditable person, of either sex, would be ashamed to appear in public without them. In Scotland, custom has rendered them a necessary of life to the lowest order of men; but not to the same order of women, who may, without any discredit, walk about barefooted. In France, they are necessaries neither to men nor to women; the lowest rank of both sexes appearing there publicly, without any discredit, sometimes in wooden shoes, and sometimes barefooted. Under necessaries, therefore, I comprehend, not only those things which nature, but those things which the established rules of decency have rendered necessary to the lowest rank of people. All other things I call luxuries, without meaning, by this appellation, to throw the smallest degree of reproach upon the temperate use of them. Beer and ale, for example, in Great Britain, and wine, even in the wine countries, I call luxuries. A man of any rank may, without any reproach, abstain totally from tasting such liquors. Nature does not render them necessary for the support of life; and custom nowhere renders it indecent to live without them.
By necessaries I understand, not only the commodities which are indispensibly necessary for the support of life, but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people, even of the lowest order, to be without. A linen shirt, for example, is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. The Greeks and Romans lived, I suppose, very comfortably, though they had no linen. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty, which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct. Custom, in the same manner, has rendered leather shoes a necessary of life in England. The poorest creditable person, of either sex, would be ashamed to appear in public without them. In Scotland, custom has rendered them a necessary of life to the lowest order of men; but not to the same order of women, who may, without any discredit, walk about barefooted. In France, they are necessaries neither to men nor to women; the lowest rank of both sexes appearing there publicly, without any discredit, sometimes in wooden shoes, and sometimes barefooted. Under necessaries, therefore, I comprehend, not only those things which nature, but those things which the established rules of decency have rendered necessary to the lowest rank of people. All other things I call luxuries, without meaning, by this appellation, to throw the smallest degree of reproach upon the temperate use of them. Beer and ale, for example, in Great Britain, and wine, even in the wine countries, I call luxuries. A man of any rank may, without any reproach, abstain totally from tasting such liquors. Nature does not render them necessary for the support of life; and custom nowhere renders it indecent to live without them.
The necessary change is cultural as well as political. En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
One night I went to a pub owned by a South African. I saw a group of guys drinking whiskey and marvelled (to the owner) at how people could afford Whisky. "It's not only that", he said. "It has to be an expensive brand of whisky that they have seen advertised and associated with an affluent western lifestyle. I have cases of cheaper Bell's whisky in the storeroom I can't shift. They want the Johnny Walker. It's the same with motorbikes or other branded goods. It has to be the expensive European/US brand rather than local produce. Branded Coca-Cola sells for three times the price of local fizz."
So yes, the greater the deprivation, the greater the captivation by the symbols of affluence and an affluent lifestyle. The problem is that I see this as both unattainable and unsustainable for the planet as a whole, and the people who have the most often don't seem to become any less greedy for more as a consequence. notes from no w here
People do change their behaviour, but not because poiticians tell them to but because the world around them change.
Recent history shows that massive, unrelenting propaganda works.
At the moment, we have an entire advertising industry whose entire raison d'etre is creating and disseminating massive, unrelenting propaganda in favour of expanding consumption. On the other side, we have a few NGOs and a couple of activists who run anti-consumption propaganda on a shoestring budget. It hardly seems improbable that a properly funded, properly engineered anti-consumption propaganda campaign could meet with success.
It has been done before: During the serious shooting wars of the 19th and 20th centuries, governments would actively encourage thrift in order to conserve productive capacity for the war effort. I will leave it to historians to judge the effectiveness of those campaigns, but the precedent for government(-sponsored) anti-consumption propaganda is there.
- Jake If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.
You mean "a false premise". Maybe you could use void instead of null. Was this possibly a cross-over from the legal expression null and void? En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
And now we return to our regularly scheduled blogging. En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
Kasparov played only to a 3-3 tie match with the Bulgarian grandmaster Veselin Topalov, a disappointing result for the champion indicating that the computer diminished his usually great play.
''Advanced Chess,'' invented and named by Garry Kasparov, is the extension of a traditional consultation game, with the exception that in place of human collaborators, the human adversaries are each teamed with a computer.
I might have said 'are better at using'.
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