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Then Cris will essentially be the banker...

Or uh, where would these 85 million come from, if the company only has 15?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 09:21:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The 85 million are contributed in kind.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 09:23:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So the construction company essentially works for free (well, they get 15 million in cash) and in return they get 85 % of the shares in the company?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 09:28:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or what? I don't understand this.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 10:00:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Basically.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 10:03:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, uh, why would a construction company want to own 85 % of a mine? If they were interested in that, they'd be a mining company instead. Taking the extra risk seems strange too, why do they want to do that? Iron prices might fall, miner strikes might happen, lots of stuff can reduce (or increase) the profits of the mine. If I ran a construction company I'd want prompt cash payment, and if I were interested in the iron mine I'd buy shares in it.

And why would the initial investors want to cede control of their company to the construction company?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 10:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's why you need bankers...

But suppose that the construction company doesn't have any other business opportunities because there's a depression. Here you have: an idle construction company, idle prospective miners, a community with an idle iron ore, and investors with 15% of the cash necessary to mobilize all these resources.

Money is very useful, and fiat money more so, in greasing economic activity. But in situations where resources are idle because of lack of money you have to monetize the resources internally to a partnership in order to make things happen. If the construction company wants to become a partner, the project happens. If they don't, it doesn't. If they don't have other projects available, they lie idle, too.

As Minsky put it, anyone can create money, the problem is to have it accepted as such. Partnership arrangements are ways to turn assets into money acceptable to the partners. If you bring enough of the community into the partnership you may even be able to feed everyone. Otherwise they can all line up at the employment office and the soup kitchen.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 11:25:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reminds me of a Swede who started his won currency twentysomething years ago. He was bee-keeper, so each bill was backed by a can of honey. Kinda cute.
   

The purpose of Kjell Holmstrands Klöver [Clover, the name of his currency] is that the money should stay in the local area. He means the capital should stay in Orsa [where he lives] and not end up somewhere else. That's why he also opposes the Euro.

- We shall keep our money in our own country, he says. The Euro means we'll have to send even more money to the bureaucrats in Frankfurt/Brussels. Then we'll have to stand there with the cap in our hand and bow and beg, so the merciful gentlemen will give us back some of our own money.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 11:38:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't worked out where they get the money to pay their staff or suppliers though. Maybe builders don't eat until the mine produces?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 10:07:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you hire people from the "community" to do these jobs they may accept "community mining scrip" as part of their payment. If you bring the staff and supplies from far away, they'll want their hard cash so they can bugger off.

We're talking about depression economics here: the problem of mobilizing sufficient, willing local resources when there isn't enough money locally and no access to credit from the broader economy.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 11:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're talking about depression economics here
Are we? Since when? I am talking about the utility of financial services not only during depressions, and I think Chris Cook believes his system is designed to operate during all parts of the business cycle.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 11:46:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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