Display:
Yup.

All the area draining into the Pacific Ocean

depend on snow melt or sub-surface water.  Climate Change is putting paid to the first.  The second is slowly being tapped-out.  The Central Valley in California (for ag areas) and Vegas (for urban areas) are only the first to hit the wall.  Over the next 20 years I expect the entire region to literally dry-up and blow away.  

The short grass prairie region is facing the same problems as the Ogallala Aquifer dries up.  This area has already depopulated, to a large extent, so the humanitarian problems won't be as bad.  

The Good News is this go will a long way to solving the economic and other problems of the Mid-Western region running from, say, the Mississippi river to central New York state.  This area has also depopulated, mostly due to the subsidized competition of California and etc., but is capable of be economically re-vitalized through diverse cropping and an increase in population.  

Europeans need to start taking a good hard look at what is happening in the US and start making some analysis of what the effects of Global Warming will have on Europe.  Given your basic problem is too much rain during the growing season it may turn out to be a net benefit, oddly enough.  But I don't know.

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 01:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A huge problem is our preferred patterns of agriculture. I dunno but devoting much of our agriculture to growing grain is hurting us bad.

Given your basic problem is too much rain during the growing season

ends up with us developing grains that grow is areas that don't have rain during the growing season and thus are prone to drought at other times of the year. The major problem with this is that fields are left bare after cropping which makes them extremely susceptible to drying out and losing topsoil. Every time you see a farmer ploughing a field and stirring up dust, that's erosion in action. Even in Britain some fields are as much as 2 feet below the level  of surrounding land from dust erosion. And it rains too much here for reliable quality grain production.

We have to switch from grain agriculture. We have to go to permaculture where land is never left open but our diet has to change radically. and yes, I know I'm saying the end of beer too.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 01:29:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I do know quite a bit about European agricultural practices and production in the Late Bronze and Early Iron Ages.  Ask me anything about the proper response to the Romans conquering Gaul.  (Feed-out more moo-moo cows for their meat and leather.)

OR about barley and einkorn production in the Jutland peninsula during the Jastdorf culture!  (Don't.  Isn't worth it.  Spend your time raising little piggies.)

LOL

It's looking like you Brits are going to lose the Fens from rising ocean level.  Which which case ag production in England is, as we say, fucked.  BSE wiped-out the flocks and herds in the whatchamacallit (Dorset?) area & etc.  That can recover if the government gets off it's ass ... like Right Now ... and stops wasting the CAP money on maximizing grain production, like you said.

Shouldn't get rid of all of it.  Grains have their place in proper crop rotation.  Hops is a perennial and can be used as part of the basic structure of a farm, in the right area.  (Do they still grow hops in Kent?)  

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 02:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We grow too much grains because we do too much meat and dairy. It mostly goes into feeding cattle, pigs, chicken, etc., with concentrates in intensive conditions.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 02:10:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A lot of the grains Europe feeds comes from the maize and soybean (soyabean) growing areas of the US, Canada, Argentina, the Ukraine, and Russia.  Poland is, or was, self-sufficient in animal feeds.

There are lands where the best crop one can "grow" is animals -- New Mexico, for instance -- although the amount of meat/acre is lower than current production practices.

In any case, animals have their place in sustainable agriculture.  Tho' not in the current practice, in the current quantities.

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 02:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not preaching against extensive animal production on marginal land and grassland, or old-style mixed farming. But those are quite enough to provide us with meat and dairy in sufficient quantity.

The rest is a question of industrial process. Grain farmers are a highly-subsidized "top level", integrated into industrial production of concentrates for intensive animal raising integrated into meat packing and supermarket sales.

We can do without this and be in better health.

The problem with it is that eating meat is a matter of prestige, like driving cars. We may wean ourselves off this kind of consumption (to some extent), but people in developing economies want meat like they want cars.

(Nitpick: Europe produces its own maize. But by decades-old international agreements, it does not produce large amounts of soy (even where it could). Intensive animal production here depends on soy imports for protein.)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 03:32:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nit-pick away, I didn't know the EU was growing enough now, didn't used to.  The soils comprising the North European plain suck for grain production so it's coming from the traditional grain areas of Poland, Hungary, & etc?

 

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 05:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By virtue of another long-standing agreement, Spain and Portugal import about 2mn metric tons of US maize. But the EU exports something like that amount elsewhere, so it balances out. Italy and France are the main maize producers.

But I'm not up on the very latest numbers.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 04:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
germany, with all her masterful uses of cereals, from the best breads in europe, and beers of international acclaim, was a lousy place to grow grains?

seems a bit off...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 08:31:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The soils in the Northern European Plain need mucho much fertilizer to 'make a crop.'  I'd have to dig through my references to find the exact soil compositions, the reasons why.
by ATinNM on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 11:57:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1995 SAA Paper

In order to understand how agriculture came to central Europe, it is important to know something of the geography of this region. I prefer to simplify the very complicated patchwork of hills, mountains, plains, and streams into two major landscape zones which have relevance for the study of early European farmers. These are the upland basins drained by the major river systems of central Europe and the flat lowlands of the North European Plain. I am putting aside the mountain chains like the Carpathians, Sudetens, and Harz, and the glacial outwash plains of central Poland and Niedersachsen, for these became of interest to European farming peoples only later. The upland basins of interior central Europe had generally served as traps for wind-blown dust during the last glaciation, which formed the fertile loess soils, while the North European Plain is covered with thinner soils which had been moved around quite a bit by glacial action. In the upland basins, streams formed a dendritic pattern separated by dry watersheds. On the North European Plain, the drainage was the result of glacial action: the bogs and streams that formed in meltwater valleys and kettle lakes, connecting with meandering little rivers and the broad floodplains of major streams like the Oder and Vistula.

Within the upland basins, there was one habitat that was of greatest interest to the early farming populations. This was the valleys of the smaller streams which drained patches of the loess. Loess is fertile but dry, and these stream valleys were oases of moistness from runoff from the adjacent watersheds and from upstream. Early farming populations settled in these habitats along the smaller rivers and creeks. In the lowlands of the North European Plain, there was also one very important habitat. This was among the chains and clusters of lakes left in meltwater valleys and dead-ice features that interrupt patches of ground moraine in several parts of the plain. In some respect, these features are analogues of the upland creeks, in that they are moist habitats in the midst of drier areas of fertile soil.

Physical Geography of Europe

Europe's broad plains curve around the highlands. Scoured by Ice Age glaciers, the North
European Plain
, or Great European Plain, stretches from southeastern England and western France eastward to Poland, Ukraine, and Russia. The plain's fertile soil and wealth of rivers originally drew farmers to the area. The southern edge is especially fertile because deposits of loess, a fine, rich, wind-borne soil, cover it.

Deposits of coal, iron ore, and other minerals found on the North European Plain led to western Europe's industrial development during the 1800s. Today many of Europe's largest cities, such as Paris and Berlin, are located on the plain.

Another fertile plains area, the Great Hungarian Plain, extends from Hungary to Croatia, Serbia, and Romania. Farmers cultivate grains, fruit, and vegetables and raise livestock in the lowlands along the Danube River.

Alemania Historia (english)
Wherever the region's terrain is rolling and drainage is satisfactory, the land is highly productive. This is especially true of the areas that contain a very fertile siltlike loess soil, better than most German soils. Such areas, called Börden (sing., Börde ), are located along the southern edge of the North German Lowland beginning west of the Rhine near the Ruhr Valley and extending eastward and into the Leipzig Basin. The Magdeburg Börde is the best known of these areas. Other Börden are located near Frankfurt am Main, northern Baden-Württemberg, and in an area to the north of Ulm and Munich. Because the areas with loess soil also have a moderate continental climate with a long growing season, they are considered Germany's breadbasket.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 12:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not preaching against extensive animal production on marginal land and grassland, or old-style mixed farming.

Didn't think you were.  

 

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 05:41:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and the feeding of grains to animals is entirely driven by profit, which would be less if we took "total cost" into account. After all, force-feeding animals has costs that aren't yet accounted for, however cheap the price.

Also, carbon costing would involve all the extra flatulence from animals digesting feed their digestions cannot process properly.

In the long run, more people are going to have to return to the land and growing their own food, we need to depopulate cities, the south east of england is a joke. But that's gonna need legislation and landowners in Scotland who have stolen good agricultural land to turn into grouse or deer moors will suffer most.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 02:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that's why changing your diet is one of the most incrementally powerful political actions you can take.

...and you feel better physically, once you're 'over the hump'!

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 12:50:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
We have to switch from grain agriculture.

It's more like we need to switch how we farm our grains:

The future is Green: Perennial Polyculture Farming

For three decades, the Land Institute has been working to create a sustainable system of agriculture that is patterned after nature itself, that is, in the words of Director Wes Jackson, "more resilient to human folly."

In Jackson's eyes, modern agriculture wages war on nature. Every year erosion eats away 5.5 tons of soil for every acre of farmland in the U.S. Petrochemical based fertilizers and pesticides kill the soils fertility.

The land Institute's Kansas farm is working to reverse this damage by developing cropping systems that mimic the prairie. Rather than planting annual crops, Jackson and the Institute are developing perennial crops that need no plowing or planting. A farm that looked like the prairie would require fewer inputs by farmers, allowing them to keep more of the profit. It would feature a mixture of crops that could be harvested from the early spring to late fall; and perhaps most importantly, it would regenerate the soil into a thriving ecosystem.

The main problem farming with perennials is that they must devote more energy into building a larger root system and have less energy for growing seeds, thus have a lower food yield. Researchers at the Land Institute and several universities are searching for varieties of perennials whose yields can compete with annual crops. The Land Institute has had some success with wheat, sorghum, and sunflowers by cross breeding perennial strains with annual strains. Some lines of wheat have been developed that yield 70% of the best annual varieties. Perennials are hardier than annuals and more resistant to weeds once they are established. In addition they contain stronger resistance to disease. A polycrop field, imitating the prairie, further increases resistance to disease since each type of plant is further separated making the spread of disease more difficult.



The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 02:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One reason I keep harping on food value rather than total food production.  Inter-planting annuals amidst the perennials will lower tonnage of food production.  Not going to be able to tucker-down to a 12 ounce steak every night.  

It will raise the total amount of nutrition per acre (hectare) by raising the amount of fruit, vegetables, berries, etc. produced. And you don't need a 12 ounce steak every night.  4 ounces of animal protein per meal is enough.

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 02:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
england should plant loads of walnuts, they can be very productive, and an excellent oil can be made from their meats.

i bet many excellent products could be created from them, and the wood is great.

also edible bamboo, wonderfully productive plant

200 apple varieties in england 50 years ago...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 12:54:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's the equivalent diagram for Europe (source: wiki):

and here is the whirl'd...


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 04:14:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking at the map and deserts I remembered a cool thing I once learned: Rainforests cause rain to fall on them.

IIRC, the large dark surface collects the suns heat, warms the air that then goes upwards, sucking in wind from the the sea, carrying moisture. The moist air floats upwards and drops the rain on the forest.

Cut down the rainforest and the weather patterns change and you might even get desert instead.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 05:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have rivers in Ireland too! And perversely, global warming seems to be giving us more rain than ever - whilst Spain is desertifying....
Let's do a deal - we'll give you 100 litres of water for every litre of wine...

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 06:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The map is of the river basins that adjoin the great European Watershed between the Atlantic and the Mediterranean and the watersheds between the major seas (North Sea, Baltic Sea, Caspian, Black...). All of Ireland's rivers go to the Atlantic.

Unless you insist on considering the Irish Sea basin... :P

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 04:14:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You forget the great watershed in the bog beside my home town which separates the Boyne - into the Irish Sea - and the Figile which flows into the Barrow and then the Celtic Sea.

And what about the Shannon - the Greatest river in North West Europe?

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 05:40:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ignorance knows no watersheds.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 at 05:42:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's not mention the possible failure of the Labrador Sink and the 2 or 3 years after that when glaciers are scraping Santa's Finnish birthplace and workshop down in the direction of Germany.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 at 04:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series