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I personally prefer wind mills grouped in parks than haphazardly dotting the landscape everywhere

You mean aesthetically?

Aesthetically, I like it less when dozens of windmills are clearly in rows -- viewed from certain directions, that really obstructs view and makes for an 'industrial' appearance. Single or smaller groups of windmills placed haphazardly feel more natural. [My 'standards' for both are on the plains West of Vienna where I travel often.]

Non-aesthetically, to block single windmills would mean to block farmers and co-ops from starting projects of their own and limiting it to utilities/major investors only, and I would be very much against that. Renewable energy as distributed power has the extra qualities of 'democratising' electricity production, and boosting a rural economy depressed by the pressure on prices in agriculture.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 07:39:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Certainly aesthetically. Go visit Flevoland province and have a look. There are only two words for the result: damn ugly. BTW, cutting subsidies is not the same as blocking.

Whereas I've long been a fan of the idea of "democratising" energy production as opposed to keeping it centralised, I have not ever read an analysis that effectively enlists the benefits or arguments whether it is at all realisable.

by Nomad on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 08:02:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you mean 'realisable'? Most of existing wind and solar power production is distributed.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 08:19:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Currently an estimated 3 percent of the Dutch energy production is generated through durable energy sources - that should include existing wind farms.

How realisable is it to add a remaining 97 percent through de-centralised energy production? And if realisable, what are the benefits compared to centralised energy production?

by Nomad on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 08:36:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For 2008:

Total durable energy production: 3.4 %
Total durable electricity production: 7.5%

Source.

Same question, just for 92% instead of 97%.

by Nomad on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 09:01:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, so you ask about high penetration. But it's not decentralised-or-not that counts there, but intermittency. On that subject, since we aren't anywhere near 100% in ten years by current trends, and PV and other penetration lags behind wind, it is a bit early to say -- there are regional model projects, but that's all. As for what the Netherlands should aim for in ten years, high penetration, also see Migeru downthread.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 02:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pushing the answer onto intermittency sounds like a straw man argument to me...

I'll take this as "I don't know" and keep on rooting for big wind farms in the meantime.

by Nomad on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 04:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pushing the answer onto intermittency sounds like a straw man argument to me...

Huh!? I repeat: I don't see what distributed power has to do with the provision of high grid penetration. The only issue I can see is distributing intermittency-caused local surpluses/mitigating  intermittency-caused local shortages, which leads straight to intermittency.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 05:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Nomad on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 02:48:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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