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rate of 1m per 3 weeks, iirc.

That slow would be possible across a problem zone, and even then only with long stops. 100m in 3 weeks would be more like it under a city like Paris, or even multiples of that.

Nowadays, unless facing unexpected geological problems (see the ill-fated North-South metro across Amsterdam), tunnel boring itself is not even the majority of the time of construction: there is surveying before, and elaborate tunnel fitting afterwards, and then track commissioning. For example, Paris's line 14 was dug for two years (at a rate of 350m/month), but opened three and a half years after tunnel boring was finished.

how fast can demand for mobility channelled to new public transportation

That's too broad a question... always depends on local circumstances, and what you mean by "channelled to new public transportation". (Do you mean how long it takes for inhabitants to switch to a new project? Or how long it would take to get a majority of them to switch to public transport? Or 100%?)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 05:31:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, this is too broad a question. I ask it the light of the RES directive objective of 10% RE in transportation. It is clear that such a penetration of RE will be possible only if overall fuel consumption of the transportation sector diminishes.

Since we know that demand for mobility is unlikely to decrease, the only solution a shift towards vastly more efficiency transportation systems -- public transportation. But then the time constraint kicks in, hence my earlier remark on subway/tramway line construction times.

I don't know what to think about this, given, as you said, how central political commitment is. The point is not really to forecast what may take place but to understand what is actually possible if there is a strong political will. Madrid, seems to be a clear case. What impact can we expect overall?

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 06:09:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I note Madrid is an example for strong political will resulting in quick construction -- however, unfortunately, it is also an example of no priority in a shift to public transport. At the same time subway construction accelerated, road construction ran amok, too, with the result that the modal shift didn't change much -- while overall traffic increased.

Now, 10% renewables in transport? How exactly is that spelled out in the directives? On the face of it, that would require (1) a much more than 10% share of electric public transport in overall transport, and/or (2) a rather significant share of RE in the generation of that electricity. Now, in some countries, hydro takes a major part of railway electricity generation, don't know about the whole EU though.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 06:40:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
DoDo:
10% renewables in transport? How exactly is that spelled out in the directives?
As we know, biofuels were initially a substantial part of that. But 10% biofuels at the current level of fuel consumption in road transport is not attainable.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 07:18:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. I wonder if the biofuels part in the 10% RE in transport goal is explicit.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 07:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Luis de Sousa - "The 10 per cent agri-fuels target has been seriously undermined"
an agreement that up to almost a third of the EU's 10 percent goal would be met not through biofuels but through electric cars and trains

That's a quote from a report on last-minute negotiations between the EP and the Commission a year ago. So two-thirds of the 10% are still supposed to come from biofuels.

See also Shifting The Biofuel Goalposts.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 24th, 2009 at 08:12:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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