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Is easy to get wrong. When the denialists are getting off by blatant distortion of science, that doesn't mean you should reciprocitate with blatant distortions of science in the other direction.

Or, as I wrote before:


There are downsides to overton window politics which are being ignored in the discourse on the left. Mainly, that it is easy for opponents to start painting your movement as irrational extremists. As we have by now successfully started doing to conservative Republicans in the United States. To avoid this trap, one should at least try to avoid bullshit. And, in the context of policy, one should put a focus on offering concrete alternatives to avoid being seen as merely critical.

Now, that's my perception, born mainly out of an elitist preference for truthfulness, nuance and realism, as well as observing how environmentalism has been sidelined and declared 'dead' in the mainstream during the past 9 years. To the extent that 'environmentalist' is now seen as a pejorative by otherwise reasonable people like Nate Silver. It might be, though, that we are on the brink of a more progressive age and I merely lack the audacity of hope.


And reformulated:
Many of the objections of environmentalists to European climate change policy can be understood in the context of the 'Overton window'. Their criticism is harsher than would seem reasonable, but this is a design to shift the political centre towards their position.  The centre, in that context, is a social construction mainly formulated through the mainstream media. For more, read this post by Jamais Cascio.

As a perpetual concern troll, I worry whether this approach is overrated. The least that needs to be digested is that the original formulation of the Overton window is about advocating more extreme policies than you wish to see implemented in order to widen the spectrum of imagined solutions. Not just about kicking up noise.

IMHO many of the greens that get into the media get it wrong. Of course the media overplays these people the same as it overplays anyone who will say anything 'different' on the other side. As David Roberts recently noted on Grist:

Helpfully, when you offer facile dismissals of science and policy to which people have devoted their lives--"We could end this debate and be done with it," sighs Dubner, "and move on to problems that are harder to solve."--they get angry, and they express that anger. Then you get to be the Brave, Persecuted Freethinker battling the Quasi-Religious Orthodoxy, and the press loves you all the more.  Why else would anyone know Roger Pielke Jr.`s name? Lomborg rode that train, along with Shellenberger/Nordhaus and Dyson. In a smaller, grubbier way, even a flack like Patrick Moore ("co-founder of Greenpeace"!) has made it work for him. It's no wonder Levitt/Dubner thought they could do the same thing, and you can sense their hesitation now that it's not working so well. [...]

On the other hand, simply repeat the broad global consensus-- climate change is an urgent problem that warrants coordinated action to reduce GHG emissions--and you get nowhere. Boooring. (I can't tell you how many back-and-forths I've had with media outlets where I try to explain that the thing most people think is right actually is right, and they say, maybe so, but that's not going to titillate our readers.)

I could start doing this crap tomorrow: Have a revelation that greens are emotional, irrational, in the grips of a cultish faith (a "secular religion"!). Realize that they're doing everything wrong, from their message to their recommended policies. Discover that the real solution is ... I don't know, thorium reactors, and everything else is needless hype and meddling. I could be denounced by greens and wear their opprobrium as a badge to gain entry into cable news and op-ed pages.


If the public keeps reading things from greens about imminent catastrophies and the need for population reduction (and yes, that's not the majority but these people are prominent) it's little wonder many see environmentalism as a secular religion. It's partially a media-created image. It's partially a result of people not being able to process too much reality at a time. But I sometimes do feel like doing a good Realo style purge.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 10:25:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
nanne:
When the denialists are getting off by blatant distortion of science, that doesn't mean you should reciprocitate with blatant distortions of science in the other direction.

I don't disagree. I was merely making an observation.

And expressing my skepticism about the "process" of public discourse on a hot-button issue.

So for me the paradox becomes: how can we obtain rational (or "responsible") public climate policy when an objective discussion of facts and data is not possible.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 11:29:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How often do denialists attack environmentalists employing Overton Window politics? It seems to me they are much more preoccupied attacking scientists and mainstream politicians listening to them.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:22:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Attacking environmentalists as evil ideologues is part of the standard denialist playbook. See here.

Otherwise, I don't understand what your question refers to.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Attacking environmentalists as evil ideologues is part of the standard denialist playbook.

Yep. Part of it. And they don't need the extremist fringe for their attacks. On the FP of the blog you link to, there is

  1. an attack on Gore and NYT,
  2. an unsourced context-free quote of a call for "halving electricity consumption" attributed to "greens",
  3. photos of his campaign against Exelon's cap-and-trade supporting CEO,
  4. a story on a company trying a scam on the back of a light bulb replacement programme,
  5. a two-pronged conflict of interest attack on a WaPo journalist,
  6. an attack on an argument for Obama's smart grid initiative,
  7. an attack on Levi's green PR.

So, I repeat: the bulk of the attacks by denialists focus on the mainstream, whom they spin as extremists, they don't much need the wacko wing of fundi Greens.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 01:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fair enough. The public perception of environmentalists may however still be negatively affected by the occassional whacky statement being overplayed in the press.

I think we can come to a synthesis if you read nomad's piece mainly as media criticism. Some of the same tendencies in the news media that exaggerate scepticism will also bring out exaggerated claims.* The upshot it a reduced trust of the public in science, whereas the proper target would be the science desks of various news operations.

* Some, because of course certain elements of the media also have their fair share of cranks and corporate hacks

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 02:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The public perception of environmentalists may however still be negatively affected by the occassional whacky statement being overplayed in the press.
I think we can come to a synthesis if you read nomad's piece mainly as media criticism.

I have a tendency to only comment on what I disagree with or miss :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 01:41:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Very good comment, but I think DoDo's right that the denialists demonize plain centre moderate expression of ideas, not those who may already be categorized as "extreme". Holocaust deniers, Creationists, Swiftboaters, (same style as climate change deniers) take standard CW for their target. They don't need extreme views to work on.

Two lessons: being more extreme à la Greenpeace doesn't actually move the Overton Window (it's the others that are smarter at doing that). And we have no particular interests to serve in attacking the denialist extreme either. We should inform mainstream CW as best we can.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 03:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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