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...and before we get too high about yaw-yaw in place of war-war, methinks the 'success' the European Coalition of the Willing members had with it was merely to have a peaceful relationship with the local population and militias -- NOT in creating a stable country, not to mention democratic and adopting Western values.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 06:34:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excuse me, but you seem to be contrasting the European with the American approach, whilst out the limitiations of the former. That alleged American goal of a stable country democratic country chock full of western values? How's that working out?

Am I misunderstanding you? Because it seems to me that the European goals were the realistic and legitimate.

by PIGL on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 07:23:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I went along with the contrasting of the European with the American approaches by Gilligan's sources in the diary, but, in the above comment, I went beyond it, because it is a false dichotomy. That the 'American' approach of war-war was absolutely mad and contra-productive doesn't mean that the European approach of 'yaw-yaw', as implemented in Iraq, was sufficient for anything that being left alone by locals. (I don't see how THAT is legitimate, BTW.)

To be a little more specific: even if the idiot American neocons had stood back and gave full control of the occupation to European allies (including command over US occupation troops), I don't see how they could have achieved more than relative peace on the surface until a pull-out a year or two later. After which all hell would have broken loose -- and if they stayed longer, all hell would have broken loose anyway. For,

  • the much-touted 'European approach' was too short on troops and money commitments to provide full-scale reconstruction and broad security;
  • and did not attempt to weed out the seeds of conflict (e.g. the militias swarming in and arming up, partly thanks to all-Western attempts to have local auxiliary forces instead of more occupation troops);
  • or plant seeds of more stability (say, some serious bottom-up democracy);
  • and even if European military is less crazy, the life of a local is still cheaper for them -- also see that German general with the airstrike in Afghanistan.

Methinks Europe has some delusions about to what extent they are being the better occupiers.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 02:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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