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that it is short-sighted to stick to one interventionist approach for different areas in general...

The so-called "Dutch" approach (which is largely copied from the Canadians but let the Americans not hear that) has shown to be relatively effective (but not faultless) at least in more low-populated areas. I've no idea whether it has been applied in more densely populated, urbanised areas or, if it has, how effective it has been.

by Nomad on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 05:31:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...and before we get too high about yaw-yaw in place of war-war, methinks the 'success' the European Coalition of the Willing members had with it was merely to have a peaceful relationship with the local population and militias -- NOT in creating a stable country, not to mention democratic and adopting Western values.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 06:34:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excuse me, but you seem to be contrasting the European with the American approach, whilst out the limitiations of the former. That alleged American goal of a stable country democratic country chock full of western values? How's that working out?

Am I misunderstanding you? Because it seems to me that the European goals were the realistic and legitimate.

by PIGL on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 07:23:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I went along with the contrasting of the European with the American approaches by Gilligan's sources in the diary, but, in the above comment, I went beyond it, because it is a false dichotomy. That the 'American' approach of war-war was absolutely mad and contra-productive doesn't mean that the European approach of 'yaw-yaw', as implemented in Iraq, was sufficient for anything that being left alone by locals. (I don't see how THAT is legitimate, BTW.)

To be a little more specific: even if the idiot American neocons had stood back and gave full control of the occupation to European allies (including command over US occupation troops), I don't see how they could have achieved more than relative peace on the surface until a pull-out a year or two later. After which all hell would have broken loose -- and if they stayed longer, all hell would have broken loose anyway. For,

  • the much-touted 'European approach' was too short on troops and money commitments to provide full-scale reconstruction and broad security;
  • and did not attempt to weed out the seeds of conflict (e.g. the militias swarming in and arming up, partly thanks to all-Western attempts to have local auxiliary forces instead of more occupation troops);
  • or plant seeds of more stability (say, some serious bottom-up democracy);
  • and even if European military is less crazy, the life of a local is still cheaper for them -- also see that German general with the airstrike in Afghanistan.

Methinks Europe has some delusions about to what extent they are being the better occupiers.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Nov 23rd, 2009 at 02:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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