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An interestng couple of dKos diaries, this one and then this one.

Basically the first is a someone complaining about the lack of progress on important progressive issues, especially health care. The second one, rather unnecessarily acidly, points out that he's actually doing exactly what he promised during the campaign. He's governing from the Beltway Centre, which is not the same as the centre of public opinion.

But me and Jerome more or less said that 30 months ago before all this hoo-hah came into being.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 11:34:54 AM EST
Considering that his administration appears to be little more than a more suave version of what McCain would have provided wrt policy on critical issues it points out the extent to which race is the critical issue to the most vehement of his critics, denials not withstanding. Hell, McCain might have done a BETTER job.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 12:04:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, we'd be at war with everyone by now if McCain had won. Which would probably mean death and mayhem on a planetary scale. Especially with Palin in the sidesaddle.

So - instead of utter destruction we have the slow creeping fail of bipartisan capitulation.

The penny will drop soon, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens then.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 12:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hard to know.  McCain, famously, has a military background and heritage and he has been critical of Bush for not taking seriously practical military requirements. I see McCain as a lot closer to Powell on issues regarding use of force. If McCrystal or Petraeus tried some of the things they have DONE to Obama, McCain would likely have blown up and fired them.

WRT Iran, I do not have a clear sense that he would have favored use of nuclear weapons and, absent that, there are few sure solutions available. He would have enough sense to see the logistical and terrain problems involved in a ground assault and would have been difficult for the military to bulldoze, like they do Obama.  "Bomb, bomb, bomb,  bomb, bomb Iran" is likely what he would have LIKED to do, but not necessarily what he would have done. Palin is another thing and with her as CIC, all bets are off.

Also, McCain received the biggest burn of his political career over campaign contributions as part of the "Keating Five." He understands the problems with campaign finance on a visceral level and has recent experience there.  He would be more likely than Obama to turn over the apple cart on that one. But the spectre of Palin and the baggage of the now base of the Republican Party would have prevented me from ever voting for McCain.

I don't regret my vote or recant my reservations about Obama. I would have preferred almost any of the primary alternatives, including Clinton, but especially Edwards, then Biden, Kucinich, or Dodd. My wife never trusted Edwards, with good reason it seems. I just thought we chose the smoothest candidate but also the one least likely to challenge the status quo at a time when challenging the status quo was what was most needed.  A president who would lead a successful take down, wind-up and dismemberment of the TBTF banks and a reconstitution of a meaningful regulation and reform of the financial sector could hardly have a downside that would outweigh his accomplishments there.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 01:29:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Under McCain, McCrystal and Petraeus would never have needed to try some of the things they've done to undermine Obama's authority as Commander in Chief, because McCain would have already sent more troops.

Of course, this begs the question: if Obama decides to send more troops to Afghanistan after months of deliberation and McCain would have sent troops instantly, is there really any difference on this issue between Obama and McCain other than 3-4 months?

by Magnifico on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 03:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having never been "appointed" with Obama I'm not all that disappointed with his administration.  

I'll take the two-three month hiatus if only as a sign Obama has shown the faintest hesitation in continuing the "Project for a New American Imperialism."

by ATinNM on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 03:32:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is there really any difference on this issue between Obama and McCain other than 3-4 months?

I didn't really address Afganistan and you may well be right. But were McCain to come to believe we should leave or go slow I suspect it would be easier for him to prevail in the matter. His criticism of Donald Rumsfield was for not sending enough troops. Likewise, whether McCain could ever see that there might be a serious economic impact from large deployments or would ever let such factors affect his decisions are unknown, but I doubt he would or could.  Obama apparently can see the problem and appears to have considered it, but gone ahead anyway. Perhaps he is relying on Geithner and Bernanke to deal with those problems. Larry probably told him not to worry.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 04:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you're glossing over a lot in your account of McCain. The guy has become erratic - or maybe he always was. You don't select Palin as veep. You don't announce that you 'suspend' your campaign to deal with a crisis and then try to make politics out of the crisis and pull back again. It's erratic behaviour, and to my mind McCain has shown a constant record of it at least since he was neutered by Rove. He would have been an extremely dangerous President.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 05:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From some of the accounts of his military career, he was a chronic fuck-up, crashed three planes and was only redeemed by his P.O.W. story. And he has a famous temper. By contrast Obama is thought to have a first rate temperament and intellect. But non-the-less Obama is serenely sailing the country into the jaws of economic destruction, a course which may well yet result in the loss of even the semblance of popular democracy, and he either doesn't get it or doesn't care. What a choice!

But from the point of view of the rest of the world, Obama does look like a much better choice.  To me it turned out to be a choice of disasters. One was more obvious the other more insidious.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 05:58:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Between the gradual economic decline of the US and nuclear war, I as a European take the former.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 06:08:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The decline might not be so gradual and the risk of nuclear way so great as you think, but it is hard to know. And US economic collapse will likely increase the danger of nuclear war.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 06:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The guy has become erratic - or maybe he always was.

The same was said of Reagan, and with good reason--specifically his "Evil Empire" rhetoric. I was genuinely concerned that Ronnie would "go nuclear" if elected in 1980. Instead, he terrified the neo-cons when he and Gorby met in Iceland and Ronnie seemed prepared to abolish almost all nuclear weapons.

Perhaps I suffer from "annihilation fatigue". But I do wish we could find a way to tamp down the popular appetite in all countries for simplistic lunatics eager to sacrifice all of the higher values of such civilization as we have managed to create and preserve as sops to short term political expediency.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 01:45:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eehm, McCain would've started a war with Iran? Or could've had a heart attack and then you'd have Sarah Palin as Prez?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 12:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As soon as she nuked Mexico.

Someone really needs to tell her that Oprah makes way more money than Obama does. And with Oprah quitting her daytime show, there's a perfect opportunity for Palin. She can bring the crazy-Beck format to daytime talk for all the disgruntled conservatives at home.

by Magnifico on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 03:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would have thought DC was first on her target list, and she would have hesitation about mexico, as she is known to have perfected the art of cold-weather tequilla shooters.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 04:03:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She can't see Mexico from her outhouse. so it would probably be safe.  Besides, she'd probably bomb New Mexico instead, thinking it was the "newer" threat.
by Andhakari on Thu Nov 26th, 2009 at 04:55:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Daily Kos: You Are Losing Me, Kossacks.
But, it increasingly seems that you have decided what you want "change" to mean regardless of what the President meant.

And hear I thought it meant whatever the listener thought it meant.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 02:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought it meant whatever the listener thought it meant.

I always thought that that was the campaigns specific plan.  His vague and allusive rhetoric always made me crazy.


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 04:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone wants a vehicle to project their desires on.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 05:41:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not quite everyone! But enough, apparently. Foolish, disillusioned Kossacks, what a surprise.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 05:47:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I posted a short and quizzically critical diary there today, and the nasties were out like greenflies on cowflop. DailyKos is going through one of their famous fits of incivility amid worry about the future of Democrats and the Progressive Program.

Europe better worry, too.

Align culture with our nature.

by ormondotvos (ormond no spam lmi net no spam) on Wed Nov 25th, 2009 at 10:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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