Display:
I wonder if they are going to ban all European flags which have crosses on them (Britain, Finland, Denmark, Sweden etc).

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now that's a provocative question of which one, such as myself, could easily make light by differentiating cruciform and crucifix.

I'm pretty sure the standard of those nations doesn't depict either Jesus or his bloody beating heart.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:16:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL, so everything is okay if those pesky Italians become protestants? ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 11:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For that matter, what about something much less symbolic: state churches in Scandinavia and Britain.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:24:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or in Germany... Just because there are two doesn't mean they are not state churches (as the collection of Church Taxes proves). Come to think of it, Spain also collects Church Tax.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:29:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As does Italy. While you can redirect it elsewhere, you don't have the option (as in Germany) of simply not paying it.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:32:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, is Church Tax next in line at the Strasbourg Court?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not according to this article (in German) - which gives an interesting comparison of the specific relationships between european states and religious communities and an outlook how the German Church is considering taking the relationship forward, also in relationship to the EU - following the Lisbon Treaty.

The authors general assumption is that while each state has its own unique relationship due to historical circumstances, there will be a greater harmonisation in the long run.

See also Lisbon Treaty
Consolidated version of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:

Article 17

  1. The Union respects and does not prejudice the status under national law of churches and religious associations or communities in the Member States.
  2. The Union equally respects the status under national law of philosophical and non-confessional organisations.
  3. Recognising their identity and their specific contribution, the Union shall maintain an open, transparent and regular dialogue with these churches and organisations.
by PeWi on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 07:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're dealing with confusion here, though. The ECHR rules on the Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms and is not an EU organ. The Convention supersedes EU law.

(Although the honourable judges in the ECJ might yet disagree with me on that, or at least presume that they are the ones to give the ultimate interpretation of the Convention rather than the ECHR)

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 08:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure, if there was confusion - I said that it is unlikely that the Church taxes will have a similar fate to the crucifix, however if, they would have to be dealt on a country by country basis - like the crucifix judgement, as each church has its unique and historically formed relationship with the country within they operate.

Secondly - and maybe I had not made a clear enough distinction - the overall legislation regarding this relationship of Church and the countries is not going to change fundamentally - and gave the example of the text from the Lisbon treaty.

Therefore there is no planned greater harmonisation of European- State- church -Relationship, and the Crucifix (or Church Tax) regulation will continue to be dealt with on a member-state basis.

by PeWi on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 10:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but as a precondition for membership, Turkey will have to start using Denmark's flag.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 at 12:34:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series