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Cameron promises future referendums on European treaties

British Conservative Party leader David Cameron promised today to change UK law so that no further powers could be transferred to Brussels without the approval of the British people in a referendum.

by det on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 12:23:36 PM EST
Or without, at least, changing this new law....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 12:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose countries which fail to approve the treaties negotated by their governments at the European Council will be politely asked by same to invoke Article 50...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 12:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cameron has promised a referendum on pretty much any 'transfer of power' but then claims that this will apply to 'not just treaty changes but also taking Britain into the euro'. I wonder whether he plans to apply this to all passerelle clauses or just to treaty changes and decisions on monetary union. In any case, a Tory government would probably veto most moves to utilise a passerelle clause and any successor government could decide not to be bound by this law.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 01:13:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I see Brit Conservatives are as vapidly ambiguous as their US confreres.  Anything, if you squint just right, is a "transfer of power."  Thus, the phrase is Semantically Null.
by ATinNM on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 01:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I seem to remember one T. Blair promising a referendum on Euro membership.

Call Me Dave is electioneering. He'll say whatever he has to keep the crazies on board the bus.

But the good thing about referendum politics in the UK is that so often there seems to be something more interesting happening, and it's so very hard to find the time to organise one.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 01:44:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Given that we won't see another treaty that deals with powers for the next 10 years, this is weak, weak tea.

The next treaties that the UK is going to have to ratify are all accession treaties (Balkans, Iceland and perhaps Turkey). In each case, it can try to make a stand (against longstanding UK policy that all enlargement is good) to get concessions on withdrawing from this or that policy, or do a referendum. It might even work. But Cameron isn't promising that. He's just saying he'll try to get a few powers back with regard to justice and employment, not what he'll do to get the other states to agree.

The Beeb got another backbencher:

But some Tory MPs are likely to continue demanding the public have a say on Europe.

Backbencher Douglas Carswell told the BBC News Channel: "I think we need a referendum on our relationship with Europe."

So I've now tallied all of 3 MPs and 1 MEP who are being restless.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 12:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Surprisingly, perhaps, I agree with their demand "the public have a say on Europe."  The British intransigence on the EU Program - such as I understand it - cannot continue over the long haul.  Either the UK is going to get with it or get out.  

US political history is a stern warning to the EU.  Our Civil War forced the south back into our Union and they've been little but a PITA ever since.  From a political POV - but not from either a moral or humanitarian POV - the Union should have let the south go.  

by ATinNM on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 01:20:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Public opinion on the EU is created as a tool by the country's elites (both in media and politics) to be able to act as a braking force on integration. Being part of the EU is a way of ensuring continuity of British foreign policy, pretty much as shown in this scene (h/t to Melanchton):

Britain is not the South. The South is stupid. Britain, as we all know, is perfidious ;-)

Although it might be tempting to want to isolate (and potentially split up) Britain by letting it step out of the EU, this would not go without a lot of unpleasant ripples -- unless the British elites make a big mistake.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 01:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Britain, as we all know, is perfidious

Britian?  I thought the Albions, from Albionania, were perfidious.  I'm so confused.  :-)

My (admittedly semi-ignorant) take is the British elites want to remain in the EU for economic reasons - CAP being one! - and remain outside on everything else.  British policy has been Balance of Power for donkey's years.  Seems to me they are trying this out using the US to balance the EU on the macro-scale and good old fashioned "Fog in Channel, EU cut-off" internally.

The problem with the Balance of Power strategy is, sometimes, you have to make a choice or the choice is thrust upon you.  I don't see the British elites leaving the EU; I do see scenarios where they are asked to leave by raising the frustration and exasperation levels high enough.  There's always a 'tipping point.'

by ATinNM on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 02:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is Britain going to be the EU's Texas Republic?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 03:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that the southernmost province of any state is always going to be somewhat semi-detached and thinking that it is (or should be) really running the show.  Thus in the USA we have Texas; In the UK we have the "Home Counties"; in Ireland we have Cork (the "real" capital); in Germany we have Bavaria; in SA, Capetown; in Brazil, Rio; in Australia, Sydney etc.

Of course the Spaniards, as usual, have things the wrong way around...

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 04:36:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As do the Italians...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 04:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My theory is obviously too sophisticated for them too...

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 04:53:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not really. Italy is semi-detached from Europe.

Though not entirely by choice, of course...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 05:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And in France it's French Polynesia?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 04:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]


notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 at 05:19:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, without counting the DOM/TOMs Corsica is semi-detached, and sometimes want to run everything.

And on the mainland, many in Provence feel they are in a different country, hate Paris and probably want to run the show.

Having said that, I don't really believe in that theory ;-)

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Thu Nov 5th, 2009 at 02:15:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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