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China could build 200 new hospitals at $100 million, or 671 million yuan, each for a total of $20 billion, or 134 billion yuan and equip them all with US medical electronics, including an MRI, for $20 million electronics total each and an electronics total of US$4 billion  for --.5% of their $800 billion dollar reserves about which they profess to be so concerned. They could build 2,000 $10 million clinics in rural areas and smaller towns for the same amount. Combined, this would represent 1% of US$ holdings for foreign currency expenditures. But they would first need to have trained the personnel to operate these facilities.

Buying medical electronics from the USA would at least give them something of value for their US dollars.  Or they could just wait and watch the dollars evaporate along with their export market. At least the Saudis understood the importance of recycling foreign currency.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:01:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Last week I asked a Taiwanese friend working for a venture capital firm in Shanghai why China is not investing more aggressively in 'social infrastructure', since he agreed that such investments were likely to encourage domestic consumption, which the conventional wisdom almost universally says would be a good thing.

His response was that that the Chinese government was (1) not sure exactly how to make such social infrastructure investments and tied along with that, were doubtful of the effectiveness of those investments, especially in light of the still significant amount of corruption that exists in China; (2) doubtful even if such social infrastructure investments actually succeeded in their primary objectives (i.e. improved healthcare, social security for the elderly, better education, childcare to let more mothers work, etc.), whether if such successes would necessarily lead to more domestic consumption; and (3) if they did result in more domestic consumption, they might not be able to control the rate of that domestic consumption and thus the inflation that it would engender.

Despite these possible explanations, it remains unclear to me why there is such reluctance to invest in social infrastructure by the Chinese central government when (a) they have so much money, and (2) everyone else seems to agree that it would be good for domestic consumption, which in turn would be good for the Chinese economy in the long-term.

La Chine dorme. Laisse la dormir. Quand la Chine s'éveillera, le monde tremblera.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:43:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Building hospitals, clinics and medical universities and training and deploying medical professionals would add an entire layer of middle and upper middle class citizens to the economy. But providing these medical services to the existing working population would raise the cost of labor in China, as would providing a social retirement program. I have advocated imputing a cost to the provision of these services by China, adding that cost as a tariff on their exports to the USA, and rebating it as they provide the services. Neither Wall Street, the CCP nor WalMart are likely to favor such action and it would only occur as a result of fundamental change in the US political scene. Come the day!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 02:15:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer: But providing these medical services to the existing working population would raise the cost of labor in China, as would providing a social retirement program.

I suspect this is elementary economics, but could you unpack that relationship for me?  You're saying companies will have to pay higher wages if workers have state-supported health insurance/services and/or a social retirement program?

La Chine dorme. Laisse la dormir. Quand la Chine s'éveillera, le monde tremblera.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 03:14:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the money for health care has to come from somewhere. Infrastructure could be built from existing savings, but, over time operations and maintenance have to be paid for. China is a sovereign nation with its own currency, so it could just "print money." But that would trigger domestic inflation--over time.

Governments are not Santa and social benefits aren't made by elves. We need to understand that these things cost money and have to be sustained through taxes and/or user premiums. Chinese goods are so cheap partly because workers get no benefits--no retirement, no health care and often rather shoddy schools, as recent earthquakes show. Lots of what is spent is wasted on graft to local party elites. There is little reason to expect that a scaled up health care industry would be built more efficiently. One would hope that it might be run more efficiently, but possibly in vain.

But the ongoing costs of health care and retirement will eventually increase the cost of exports. The US and Europe have been uncompetitive wrt manufacture of consumer goods in no small part because of the total absence of any benefits to Chinese labor. China has a vast pool of potential industrial labor still in the countryside, so, in effect, Malthus rules and wages tend to subsistence. China has begun to see that the lack of any rules on environmental pollution has to be dealt with and are likely focused there and do not want to be distracted by other expensive programs.  

From the point of view of the elites, workers are a disposable, renewable commodity, little different from pigs and chickens raised for market. They would object to the characterization, but the fact is western elites envy them their lack of restraints. The attitudes of some "overseas" Chinese of the business class that I knew or knew of in LA were completely compatible with that characterization.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 11:56:23 AM EST
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Suprisingly, these arguments aren't a million miles away from republican claims that governemtn stimulus created employment aren't "real jobs".

Have the neolibs got to the chinese ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 04:35:11 AM EST
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Our elites benefit from cheap Chinese labor and so do not wish to bring the downside to public attention. The problem is not with the facts but, rather, with the frame. We have either to do without health care or pay for it. Western economic elites want to use China and India as bogymen and as explanations as to why we cannot afford the benefits we have.

That is a very large part of the whole point of globalization. The fact of a low cost producer puts pressure on higher cost producers. The public and the vast majority of economists have been taught that this is just how economics work and that bringing politics into the equation is WRONG. Of course this is absurd and the existing arrangements are the RESULT of politics that favor elites and that then disguise the fact that politics are even a part of the equation.

It is a measure of the task ahead that enough of the public must be re-educated to support sensible, available solutions, such as Hudson, Stiglitz and others have suggested, or see themselves in the same condition as the Chinese worker today faces. The next generations really can all live in shipping crates sitting in open sewers unless we awaken.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 12:09:47 PM EST
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I'd question whether such increased domestic consumption is sustainable. At least the High Speed Rail is a sustainable technology. China is no doubt saving the world a lot of additional air traffic in the near future by building these huge lines. I found it odd (or actually, absurd) that there was zero comparison with air travel in the Bloomberg piece, only with the traditional rail that the real people take.

What happens if the Chinese suddenly all start consuming a lot more? Seems to me they'll buy themselves some cars and airplane tickets. More infrastructure spending would be necessitated. You don't hear anyone (anyone that matters, like, economists) nag about the airports and highways China is building. No doubt that slice of infrastructure spending amounts to something when you sum it up.

So, that's why I thought the piece was a rather amazing display of economic stupidity.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 06:07:51 AM EST
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Surly a significant level of medical care and of retirement provisions must be made to be sustainable. I agree that crap consumer goods that usually last only a few months at best are totally wasteful and that that is an appropriate characterization of a large part of what China provides for distribution in WalMart. We should be paying more for durable consumer goods that will last for many decades, as older western appliances often do. Same for clothing, but on a somewhat different time scale.

It is going to be sufficiently challenging to simply provide the basics that a modernizing peasantry in India and China will want without compounding the problem by allowing deliberately shoddy merchandise that is junk in half or less of its reasonable lifetime. But that implies that criteria other than next month's and years corporate statements are to be seriously considered. Flopenhagen showed how far we have to go yet.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:52:14 PM EST
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Why does it have to be about domestic consumption? This "social infrastructure" improves the lives of people in tangible ways and not doing it when China is said to have the money to do it is criminal.

I understand the worries about corruption regarding public subsidies (unemployment, pensions) but free provision of basic services like health care and education doesn't lend itself to so much corruption.

The control-freakery of the Chinese government does shine through.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como Espańa entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 06:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Medical services and retirement benefits are a form of consumption. Were the energy to support them supplied from renewable sources they would be even better.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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