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So I take it children count as luxury accessoires in Dublin and London?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretty much. Quite a number of women I know have gone back to work after having a kid and paid most or all of their salary on childcare - especially if it's number two. They felt they couldn't afford to stay off work too long because then they'll lose career progression or become unemployable. Prices might be dropping now - though I haven't heard they are - with the econocalypse but so have wages.

We're very lucky to be able to get by with a combination of family, daddy working from home and mommy changing hours.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:57:26 PM EST
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"We're very lucky to be able to get by with a combination of family, daddy working from home and mommy changing hours."

It's true that we didn't help our case by moving AWAY from the family.
I do work from home a lot of the time, but I must be on the phone for meetings which wouldn't make looking after the baby possible.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:54:25 AM EST
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Yeah, that shows a certain lack of sensible planning!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:10:18 AM EST
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Childcare costs are obscene all over the UK and the Govt wonders why women can't go back to work.  

My brother and his partner can only afford the childcare because he works days and she works nights so it minimises the time my niece is in nursery.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The international team on the start-up concluded, privately: Brits hate their children.

To be fair, the attitude is a reasonable effect of trickle-down socialism [writ large, real estate].

and

To be precise, I also engaged a sitter half day who I sourced from the local library bulletin board @ GBP 10.00/hr.

Lesson: Bundled convenience does not come CHEAP.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeez.

All that aggro.

Just to live in London.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was at grad school. DrMarketTrustee was in NYC. The alternative was bufu Ithaca, NY.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Point taken.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:27:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the govt makes it so expensive to enter the child minding market, what with insurance and criminal record checks and ofsted reports and all other stuff that you have to be totally oriented on the business of child minding to enter the market with a lot of financial resource behind you. Looking after a couple of kids in your front room is impossible

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Looking after a couple of kids in your front room is impossible "

Ah. There goes the Migeru idea then.
Oh well...

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"So I take it children count as luxury accessoires in Dublin and London? "

Oh yes -although I may still object to the word accessoires, meaning something you can easily dispense with.

The thing is, a few years ago I made an estimate on how much it would cost us to have a baby, in order to know how much we may want to save prior to that. I came up with 1300€/month, which people reckoned was extremely high. I explained that I came to this high number because we were rather well off, so that, for example, an extra room would be extra surface in a not too cheap part of the town, ditto holidays, food and even clothes, where we'd probably want to have quality stuff... This was based on some serious studies by INSEE, and used a ratio of parental income to come up with the costs, expressed as how much you'd need to maintain the very same standard of living for you and your child as you had before.

So, it appears that even in Paris 1300€ per month is  easily enough to do so.

Now in London, ALL of it and maybe more is likely to go into being able to leave the house to go to work -and that is not proportional to income, it's something anyone working is likely to need.

Of course, in France you get tax reduction when you have children, and a lot of state help, and there are more public creches (although not enough of them)... You also get a lot of help if you want to employ someone at home. You know, socialism ;-)

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:46:45 AM EST
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Of course, in France you get tax reduction when you have children

Israel has a particularly unusual way of computing child allowances: if you have n children, you get x*n sheqel when n<4, and x*n+y*(n-3) for n>=4, where y is approximately equal to x. It used to be n>=5, with y approximately equal to 4x. (Specific values for x and y can be found here).

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:58:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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