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Ok, a serious question.

Textile mill technology was developed in the 18th century in England, then borrowed (or stolen) for introduction in the USA. The technology was as mobile as the person who understood it. Similarly, 19th century gold mines in California and Colorado were generally run by European engineers. 20th century mines in South America were frequently run by American engineers.

Today, Global Foundries is setting up a new chip fab using technology from the USA and Far East, and money from the Middle East.

What is the difference?

by asdf on Wed Dec 9th, 2009 at 11:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
People did not, as a rule, move around as much. Moreover, as soon as the mine or factory was set up, the factory did not tend to move around very much.

By contrast, today you can gut the factory, ship the machines halfway around the world and put them in a factory there. And your engineers will not take a month to get there, but a couple of days.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 12:15:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're also forgetting capital controls, the fact that financial capital was also aptly assumed to be tied to its home country and that free movement of capital has become pretty much complete (and, moreover, a part of "free 'trade'" agreements in the last 30 years or so).

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 04:47:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think a persuasive argument can be made that British financial capital, at least, was not seriously constrained by those capital controls. Probably not French either.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 04:51:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think a persuasive argument can be made that British financial capital, at least, was not seriously constrained by those capital controls.

In Ricardo's time there was no need. The opportunities were right there in Britain. Plus, until 1815 there was the minor annoyance of the Napoleonic Wars. This probably remained the case at least through mid century. Why send your money overseas if there are ample opportunities at home, where you can keep a close eye on it and influence the government through known and traditional means?

By 1880 there was a need by those who held the capital, and who had great influence over the government, to find profitable investment opportunities abroad lest they cause the price of labor in Britain to rise and the return on their existing investments to decline. So long as they could manipulate the government into providing basic security in a destination country, such as India or South Africa, on pretext of colonial rivalry or "national interest" they could manufacture rails and locomotives in the U.K. from existing plants, build and operate railroads, etc. in India and South Africa, thereby bringing vast hinterlands into the reach, through their control, of "the market."

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 05:49:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd like to see more evidence of this. The railroads in Colorado were built (1880s) largely with English money.
by asdf on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 09:38:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's 60 years after Ricardo, already in the middle of the Long Depression and after financial capitalism had already replaced the entrepreneurial capitalism of Smith/Ricardo, at least in capital-intensive sectors such as railways. What Veblen wrote in 1904 about railways and finance is not that different from what Minsky was writing in 1986, but both are a world apart from what Ricardo was writing about.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 10:23:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
U.S. laws and institutions were sufficiently similar to those of the U.K. that British investors were generally comfortable investing in high potential return projects in the USA, not to mention Canada.  But they were also very active, for instance, in Argentina and Chile as well.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 05:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe russian railroads were similarly built with french money.

(This was also during the the first period of globalization so Mig's comment applies similarly to it.)

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 06:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
asdf:
The technology was as mobile as the person who understood it

Only as long as the technology was lite, using machines made of wood and other natural materials a craftsman could assemble. The colonists and later Americans did develop foundries and metal-working, but it took time to build an industrial infrastructure. It wasn't as quick and easy as you describe.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 01:44:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We would have to get into a serious discussion of the history of technology to decide this. Worcester, Massachusetts, was in the middle of the industrial revolution pretty much from the start.

http://www.nps.gov/spar/upload/Tho%20Blanchard%20bulletin%201206%20A.doc

I suppose the first thing to do would be to choose some dates for comparison, say 1850 and 2000...

by asdf on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 09:43:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My remark applies to the colonial and early American period (your reference to 18th century). By the mid-nineteenth century America had built up considerably more infrastructure.

The Blanchard story is interesting, but more a story of an individual craftsman's ingeniosity than the mobility of technology.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 09:59:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose to be fair, the first date would have to be 1800, when Ricardo was still alive. However, I agree that the U.S. was at least 50 years behind Britain in industrialization, up until perhaps 1850. I suspect it was more a matter of population than anything else; even in eastern New England, the population was pretty low in 1800. Massachusetts had fewer than 500,000 people, mostly farmers. Sure, they could put up a mill, but why bother? The standard of living even for regular farmers was astoundingly high at the time.

Look at this house that Bronson Alcott lived in in Concord, for example. And he was broke most of the time.

by asdf on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 08:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The first ironworks in the Mass. Bay Colony was established prior to 1640 so as to support ship building and other local industry, some of the most advanced technology of the day. The Puritans came from the north east of England and brought with them the best practices of all the various trades of the time required for this industry. The volumes were relatively low and the source of iron was limonite or rock ore from bogs, which was the same source as in England. And timber, both for ships and for furnaces was much more abundant in New England than in England. See Creating the Commonwealth by Stephen Innes, p.239 & fff.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 10th, 2009 at 06:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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