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So I can see how your recent experiences could have shaken you to the foundations.

I am not claiming the temporary insanity defense, and I'd rather not have anyone involved in the recent disputes do it on my behalf, as it rather cheekily implies guilt on my side, even if kindly excused.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 at 01:43:26 PM EST
No one thinks you are insane, temporarily or otherwise.  

Acknowledging when another person is going through something difficult is a way many people express empathy.  

"Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms." -Dostoevsky

by poemless on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 at 01:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what I meant, to be more specific, is that I don't accept blame being pinned on me because I was supposedly distraught or weakened. Excusing my supposed weakness is a rather direct way to put the fault for the dispute on me, even if (or rather specifically if) to then gallantly let it be.

Just saying.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 at 02:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Acknowledging when another person is going through something difficult is a way many people express empathy.

I think you probably know that an expression of empathy may bear a number of subjacent messages, or serve a purpose in an overall rhetorical scheme. It's not for me to judge intention (conscious or not). But it's perfectly conceivable that the recipient of the expression of empathy, in this case Jérôme, may feel frustrated that it rather conveniently buries his standpoint in the past discussion, along the lines, You're going through shit so we can all understand you were (excessive/wrong etc, provide pejorative epithet).

I insist that I am not judging intention. Just saying that one might feel frustrated in Jérôme's shoes.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 at 03:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Jérôme feels he has done nothing wrong, then from his point of view there is nothing to be excused, and therefore whether or not he was going through shit isn't relevant to the dispute.  (It is of course relevant to anyone who knows and cares about Jérôme).  

If, on the other hand, Jérôme feels he might have phrased certain comments better, Chris' comment shows understanding and acknowledgement that we all go through shit sometimes, and this can effect how we react in certain situations.  It is an acknowledgement that no one expects us to be perfect all the time and the occasional fall from grace is understood and forgiven.

I took Jérôme' response as a rejection of any notion that he has done anything to apologise for, and thus that any expression of empathy is not necessary in this context (and perhaps even unwelcome as it might be seen to imply that he might have done something he might wish to apologise for).

Given that this appears to be Jérôme's position, I think it best we leave it at that.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Feb 25th, 2009 at 03:40:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome, I cannot fathom finding the most remote offense, or trying to improve that quote.  Reading it and twisting it, as if cerebral illness could possibly be considered an insult, is much more work than taking it at face value, when you know the source.  This is an expression of a kind feeling and having met and read ChrisCook here for a long time, I have every reason to believe he's sincere.  

I-don't-understand the possible doubt.  Yes, there are hidden messages in communication and people play games, but most people don´t find it worthwhile, most of the time.  

How can I/anyone say anything right, if you will read it as mean-spirited, or have different connotations for words?

Do you believe that most of us make the effort to  write just to underhandedly insult you, make you look bad, undermine you, or ET, or try to sneak one past you?  

I hope you have more trust than that.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 04:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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