Display:
1-2% ??
by rootless2 on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 12:41:57 PM EST
yes. The interest you pay is the base rate (EURIBOR or LIBOR or similar)  plus the margin, but only the margin is income for the bank.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 12:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've long wondered why banks do not do x% + warrants type of investing to get some upside on these types of investments. Banks would be able to do that more efficiently than VC companies that have a higher capital cost and must push for casino results. What we saw when we looked for (small) debt from banks for growing a company was that they wanted to increase rates astronomically.

HP started with a bank loan.

by rootless2 on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 01:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've long wondered why banks do not do x% + warrants type of investing to get some upside on these types of investments.

Chris Cook has been suggesting revenue-sharing or production-sharing agreements which have both a reduced default risk and a share of the upside.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 03:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well according to the leaked Barclays docs, that margin is bit higher.

Of course, you have to send your LIBOR to a detox center on the Canary Islands, otherwise it will get your whole portfolio sick.

Or just buy the whole damn money market house that was supplying your LIBOR, which ever looks better on the books.

When world history is written, Texas will appear as a long elaborate joke.

by Pinche Tejano on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 03:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
margin for what? It depends on the risk. All margins are basically 1.5% more than what they were in mid/late 2007.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 03:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
just wait, I am known for my clever tricks.

Decanted a few of the Barclays documents, take a gander yourself:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5046490/BarclaysValiha

When world history is written, Texas will appear as a long elaborate joke.

by Pinche Tejano on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 09:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's wrong with 1-2%?

On a billion dollar loan, that's 10-20 million a year (because it's on the high side of the deals Jerome describes, call it 10 million). Over the life of that loan, it is a nice, stable (barring acts of god and if everyone does their work well) income for any organization. Internally, the bank employs and pays maybe 2 dozen people to service this loan...not bad.  And while this loan matures, other deals are being spun, other deals near the end of their terms.

I have been an early hire in 5 startups. The most any of these manufacturing firms ever grossed was 6 million. (For some reason, the membrane keyboard business - 3 of those starups - loses profitability and management has a much tougher time keeping things running smoothly with anything more than about 6 million in gross sales per year.) Employing anywhere from 20 to 90 people, I rather like Jerome's banking business model more than my manufacturing one.

1% of a billion dollar deal. Ok, sign me up.

"It Can't Be Just About Us"
--Frank Schnittger, ETian Extraordinaire

by papicek (papi_cek_at_hotmail_dot_com) on Sat Mar 28th, 2009 at 10:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I recall that the problem of transitioning a business through a certain income barrier has long been a known business problem.  Thirty years ago it was getting bigger that $1 million or so.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 31st, 2009 at 11:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only business I worked for (I was a first hire) that broke the barrier, did it by switching to a more upscale product (membrane switches can be produced for pennies). Though these days, they aren't doing to well. They closed the company 1 day a week a few months back. A few weeks ago, they added another day closed.

"It Can't Be Just About Us"
--Frank Schnittger, ETian Extraordinaire
by papicek (papi_cek_at_hotmail_dot_com) on Wed Apr 1st, 2009 at 09:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
never forget, as a banker you command capital, which is essentially "saved work", so although it is only a small deal team, the capital involved is the same as if a banker had a lot of slaves who he allocated to a certain project. I think that puts the question of how many people make how much of profit in perspective?
by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Wed Apr 1st, 2009 at 10:49:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series