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das monde:
In Japan I heard of cases of mortgage contracts stretching into next generations. Can't this happen in the US?

good question.

here's another one: if someone pays into a pension fund for 40 years then dies one year into retirement, or even before for that matter, why can't the accrued retirement funds be passable on to kin?

sorry if that's OT.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Mar 10th, 2009 at 03:52:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the US debts die with death. Not sure how it works with an underwater secured debt, presumably if an heir wants to take it over they can, but there is no obligation.
by MarekNYC on Tue Mar 10th, 2009 at 04:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe that defined contribution plans are hereditary, defined benefit ones aren't. (That is you can inherit money in your parents 401(k) That sort of makes sense, the contributions to defined benefit plans, including both employer and employee payments, are meant to add up to what the expected payouts will be. That involves using actuarial stats on life expectancy - i.e. they assume that a certain percentage of the beneficiaries will die earlier than others. Though spouses often do get benefits after death. But IANA accountant or lawyer, so I may well be wrong about all of this.
by MarekNYC on Tue Mar 10th, 2009 at 04:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In general, "defined contribution" refers to contract terms of periodic variable payments into an Employer Sponsored Retirement Plan, such as a 40*(*), or tax sheltered investment fund. So far as I know, these types of tax-sheltered, deferred compensation schemes do not warrantee cumulative value of funds available or amount or periodicity of distributions at date of retirement. Here is an informative source. Scroll to the table near the bottom of the window.
Death benefits to be paid under a 403(b) plan depend on when death occurs and who is the designated beneficiary [surviving spouse or other] on the plan. The Internal Revenue Code states that distributions generally must be made from a 403(b) plan by the participants required beginning date, which is April 1 of the year following the year in which the participant attains age 70 1/2. Different rules apply to death benefits depending on whether or not death occurs before the required beginning date.
Distributions must liquidate the account. And these are taxable as ordinary income. Here is important advice about limitations on survivor interest in ESRP and other annuity product distribution.
MRD stands for "minimum required distribution." The Internal Revenue Code established these minimums to ensure that you actually use your Employer Sponsored Retirement Plan account balance for retirement (and not, for instance, to pass onto your heirs). ... If you do not take an MRD from your retirement account each year, the Internal Revenue Code imposes a 50% penalty tax on the amount that should have been withdrawn in each calendar year. This tax is in addition to regular income taxes.
"Defined benefit" refers to contract terms of periodic fixed payments from an tax-sheltered annuity (TSA) fund, such as a pension, the value of which is guaranteed irrespective of investment performance over the life of contributions.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Mar 11th, 2009 at 09:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Tax-sheltered deferred compensation scheme" is a really nice term for "private pension plan." I'm gonna steal that line, if you don't mind.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Mar 12th, 2009 at 06:25:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
G W Bush was arguing along these lines in the 2000 campaign. But I see this as an element to nail Social Security or other public pension plans. The drive for retirement on investments is quite a step back towards feudal times.

The view that Social Security is a privilege, a right, or an entitlement is not quite healthful. The phenomenon of pensions as we know them is less than a century old, actually. Social Security was rather created as a social construct to reduce some (elder care) burden for the middle class - and it worked well this way for several decades. The system was far from Ponzi-type problems, because any "baby boom" discrepancy between payers and benefactors did not require exponential corrections. Although politicians claimed that Social Security would "go belly up" by 2018, the actual official estimate was that the system would still receive income by 2018. Many people were truely fooled.

The private pension plans have the disadvantages of higher administrative costs (much higher...), more dramatic reaction to economic downturns and demographic bumps (just because boomers have to buy competitively and then sell competatively). Other difference might be the rule of passing the saving to your descendants. Is it unfair that people dying just at the pension turn pay fully but get nothing? If your main concern is the relative position of everyone participating, that is unfair. If you are mostly enthusiastic with a social mechanism to relieve the productive population somewhat, things become neutral.

In the current political climate, framing pensions as a "fair" payoff helps to phase out the whole idea of public pensions. I would rather admit that Social Security is a bit of a gamble for a reasonable sake of society.

by das monde on Wed Mar 11th, 2009 at 01:24:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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