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  1. The Soviet economy under Stalin was not a capitalist one. It was 100 % planned, and essentially ate coal to shit steel.

  2. The Roman Republic was destroyed because the military transfered its loyalty from the government to the generals. This happened partly because the draft was replaced by salaried proletarian soldiers, which happened because Rome had run out of enough relatively rich people to draft (they had to buy their own weapons and armour).


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri May 15th, 2009 at 02:59:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so planned does not mean non capitalist.

There was no draft in Rome. Soldiers were signing for 20 years. Renewable.

As I wrote in countless essays before, on my wordpress and tyranosopher sites, the collapse of the republic was caused firstly by the rise of the plutocracy (just read the Gracchi).

I think you are confusing Greek soldiers (buying their own weapons), and Roman army (military weapons were mass produced in state factories).

PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 15th, 2009 at 05:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You using special definitions shared not by anyone else does not ease understanding of the issues. The Wikipedia definition of capitalism is a good one.

There was no draft in Rome. Soldiers were signing for 20 years. Renewable.

Only after the Marian reforms, which really were what initiated the downfall of the Republic.

Up until the last decade of the second century BC the eligibility requirements to become a Roman soldier in the service of the Republic were very strict.

    * He had to be a member of the fifth census class or higher.
    * He had to own property worth 3000 sesterces in value.
    * He had to supply his own armaments.

When war threatened, the consuls of the day would be charged with the duty of recruiting an army from the eligible citizenry of the Republic. As a rule, one of the consuls would lead this mainly volunteer army into battle.

[...]

The foremost of the Marian reforms was the inclusion of the Roman landless masses, the capite censi, men who had no property to be assessed in the census. Instead they were "counted by the head". These men were now among the ranks of those who could be recruited even though they owned no significant property. Because these poor citizens could not afford to purchase their own weapons and armor, Marius arranged for the state to supply them with arms. He thus offered the disenfranchised masses permanent employment for pay as professional soldiers, and the opportunity to gain spoils on campaign. With little hope of gaining status in other ways, the masses flocked to join Marius in his new army. These professional soldiers were recruited for an enlistment term of 16 years, later to rise to 20 years full service and 5 years as evocati under the reforms of Augustus.

[...]

However, loyalty of the legions shifted away from the Roman state, i.e. the Senate and People of Rome, and towards the generals who led the army. It became alarmingly common for a general to prolong his Imperium by using the army to influence the senate and consolidate his power. Some even went as far as to declare war on their enemies (see Roman civil wars).

This led ultimately to the destruction of the Republic and its transformation into an Empire under the rule of an Emperor in all but name.



Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri May 15th, 2009 at 05:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and pasted. I collect books on Rome... But some, like books on Nazism, are far out...

Notice the "mainly volunteer army" part, which is exactly what I said before. It was even completely voluntary, come to think of it, like I said.

Now accusing Marius to have started the problem is not a new theory (plutocrats love that one, that is why they tried to assassinate Marius). But clearly, as explained by the Gracchi a generation earlier, and expecially considering the thousands of Gracchi partisans killed by Blackwater, ooppss, sorry I meant the plutocratic militia, the problem is much anterior to Marius.  

The last section of the text above is not correct. Only Sulla and Caesar did this. Pompey did not. It was not "common".

The republic was destroyed by plutocrats, not really generals. The generals moved in the mess caused by plutocrats.

PA

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/

by Patrice Ayme on Fri May 15th, 2009 at 06:31:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Marian reforms

Search engines are very practical for finding from where text are copied.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri May 15th, 2009 at 06:39:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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