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I agree that levies on privilege - which operate as taxes on wealth - would assist in redistributing wealth so that purchasing power is more widely spread and people become more credit worthy.  But such fiscal remedies have almost nothing to to do with monetary problems.

yes they do. By preventing concentration of capital, and eliminating the ability to concentrate capital simply by capitalising interest, you prevent attempts at exponential growth of money. It's highly relevant.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 10:50:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you defining capital as "financial capital"?

And if so, how do you propose to apply a Wealth Tax to it?

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 10:54:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
estate taxes are pretty good at that, as Piketty documented.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 12:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Estate taxes are better than nothing, it's true.

Jerome a Paris:

you prevent attempts at exponential growth of money.

AFAIK nothing other than defaults and debt deflation prevents exponential growth of money based on interest-bearing debt.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 12:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Money can grow as fast as productivity. Now how you measure productivity is a tricky question, as we know, but I see no reason why we can't continually create more value from the same material resources available to us, by being smarter about it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 12:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
without setting off inflation and causing bubbles, of course you mean.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 01:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We should also be able to have growth even with declining consumption of material resources through more ingenious use of resources and through better recycling.  Growth based on expanding consumption and degradation of material resources is just the dumbest and simplest way to do it, and the most efficient and profitable IF WE IGNORE OR "EXTERNALIZE" resource limitations and the degradation of the biosphere.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 01:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome a Paris:
but I see no reason why we can't continually create more value from the same material resources available to us, by being smarter about it.

I agree with that: Knowldge is key.

I think that the introduction of a truly connected knowledge economy will unleash colossal value, and provided these gains are spread equitably then there should be no problem.

As things stand, they would not be, of course, but if the broken status quo continues, these gains will not be made, since IMHO the key to unleashing knowledge value is a collaborative and open enterprise model.

I think that levies on privilege - particularly the privileges of exclusive rights of use of land/location; non-renewables; and knowledge - are the best way that this evolution may be achieved. I would drastically cut taxes on earned income - to maybe 10% - remove all other taxes entirely, and replace means-tested benefits with National Dividends.

No chance of any of that of course because privileged turkeys don't vote for Christmas, but I think that the evolution of P2P finance can and will have the same outcome.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 01:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ChrisCook: I think that levies on privilege - particularly the privileges of exclusive rights of use of land/location; non-renewables; and knowledge - are the best way that this evolution may be achieved. I would drastically cut taxes on earned income - to maybe 10% - remove all other taxes entirely, and replace means-tested benefits with National Dividends.

So you would get rid of the estate tax and capital gains taxes?

Could you describe or point me to an example of how you would levy an exclusive right of use of knowledge?  Would you levy exclusive right of use of artistic work?

An educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern. -- Tony Benn in Sicko

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 02:06:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
marco:
So you would get rid of the estate tax and capital gains taxes?

Indeed I would, since the levies I propose would capture the relevant value more certainly and more efficiently, I believe.

marco:

Could you describe or point me to an example of how you would levy an exclusive right of use of knowledge?

The mechanism I would use is a Limited Liability Levy on gross revenues of Corporations collected simply and unavoidably via the clearing system.

After all, an increasingly large part of the value of such Corporations consists of the intellectual capital of knowledge, experience and gumption residing between its employees' ears and the objectified intellectual property it owns.

I would also get rid of Corporation Tax, VAT and tax on dividends.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 02:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks for the clarifications.

is this minimal taxing aspect of your thinking a recent development, or did i miss it when you have presented it earlier?

An educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern. -- Tony Benn in Sicko

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun May 17th, 2009 at 10:19:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My thinking in relation to taxation of privilege has evolved, it's true, following reflection upon what the true sources of value actually are.

I have long been convinced by the Georgist rationale for a Land Value Tax - ie a tax on the privilege of exclusive rights of land use - but I had not extended the logic of taxation of privilege much further until the last few months.

For a while I thought that tax on earned income might be unnecessary and maybe unjustified, but I think that a tax on earned income could be considered as a levy made on the privileges of security, education and good healthcare which a decent Society provides to all.

If a Location Benefit Levy; Non-Renewables Levy and Limited Liability Levy etc were applied, then I doubt whether taxation on earned income need be set too high. It would be interesting - but a major task, I suspect - to run the numbers.

By way of example, in Hong Kong, land taxation raises around 35% of the tax take, and until the current government capped it about 8 years ago, I understand that Denmark's land tax raised about 30%. In the absence of these taxes, then taxation of earned income would have to rise to levels which would probably be unacceptable -in Hong Kong at least.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun May 17th, 2009 at 02:39:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
marco:
Would you levy exclusive right of use of artistic work?

In relation to copyrights owned by individuals (rather than corporations), I think that a levy on gross revenues would be appropriate.

I'm not sure about patents: certainly a levy on revenues received by individuals. I would also wish to encourage the use of patents through a "use it or lose it" provision, perhaps.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 02:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there is also POWER capital. And that is not taxed.

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Sat May 16th, 2009 at 03:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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