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The Anglo Disease as experienced in the USA seems qualitatively different due to the dollar's role as a reserve currency.

IANAE, but my take on that is that the US used the dollar's status as reserve currency to inflate its financial sector, where the UK used a much more aggressive policy of being a tax shelter flag of convenience country.

I'll leave it to the economists to hash out whether that's a qualitative difference.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 02:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But the problem faced by the U.K. is more difficult than it would be were the pound an international reserve currency of status equivalent to that of the euro.  Iceland, Ireland and the U.K are a progression of steps in economic and currency weight.  The step from that progression to one containing the EMU and the USA are much greater.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 02:28:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's certainly true. OTOH, as Bruce points out, the US is uniquely dependent on energy imports from countries over which it has limited political influence.

Iceland, OTOH, has abundant energy resources. And the UK has a number of markers it could surrender in the European political game in return for help with its energy issues. Ireland... well, they're not quite as far in the hole as the UK, at least to judge by what I read on ET. Being a much smaller economy located much closer to a functioning economic zone is both a blessing and a curse that way...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 03:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True enough about Iceland with geo-thermal energy, but it is hardly self sufficient and their vehicles do not yet run on electricity, do they?  But everyone has their own set of circumstances.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 07:50:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I was trying to say "yes, they're qualitatively different... for suitable values of 'qualitatively.'"

The fundamental, underlying logic is the same. The political and economic fallout, and the specific way it was implemented are not.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 08:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that they are self sufficient. It's just that Iceland exports much of its electricity in the form of aluminium.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 08:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From what I saw, Alcoa had made an arrangement that left the state liable for most of the cost of the Alcoa plant and it was planning on ridding itself of any obligation to pay Iceland.  I may be mis-remembering the details.  Do you know how that has worked out?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon May 25th, 2009 at 09:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a film - "Dreamland" - about the whole thing



"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue May 26th, 2009 at 04:27:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Without having seen more than thait trailer, it does seem like the usual PC anti-industrial leftist clap-trap.

With the economy going to hell, I'd say the people of Iceland will be pretty happy they'll still have the aluminum industry left, especially as I've heard the guestworkers have been shipping out because of the currency collapse: their wages aren't that high anymore in real terms.

So the Karahnjukar project should be a good thing now, if Alcoa doesn't fuck them over somehow.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue May 26th, 2009 at 07:18:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Given Alcoa's record, that's a pretty big "if," though...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 26th, 2009 at 08:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there anything in particular they're doing, or what? I thought both the smelter and the dam were on schedule and will work just as planned.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue May 26th, 2009 at 08:18:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm worried about the sticky strings attached, more than whether the industrial machinery will operate or not. Alcoa does not have a particularly convincing record when it comes to honest business practise, human rights, paying taxes and other such niceties.

The fact that they were one of the central players in Pinochet's coup doesn't precisely do wonders for my confidence in their willingness to do well by Iceland either. AFAIK, they were never seriously punished for that story.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue May 26th, 2009 at 08:56:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fair enough.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue May 26th, 2009 at 09:04:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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